Electrical Safety Advice And Testing

[Dean Hankin]

I don't know if this is the correct place to ask this question but I need some advice on electrical safety and if possible the details of a company in the UK (closer to Nottingham the better) who can test an appliance for electric safety and to determine the cause of a fault. Everyone seems to be in the business of testing large domestic and commercial installations, not small appliances.

To cut a long story short, I was using an appliance the other day and it literally blew up, I mean, it was like a large firework going off for about 30 seconds, quite incredible and extremely dangerous. We had a full on electrical fire with what can only be described as lightning coming out of the back of the appliance, this was accompanied by an incredible arcing noise, like having an industrial welder on the kitchen worktop

I received a small shock from the machine prior to it going bang as I was using it at the time, the initial shock made me move away but if I hadn't I almost certainly would of been badly injured or worse because the whole thing is made completely from stainless steel which I was touching at the time

I have been in touch with the vendor and they suggested an independent inspection which I agreed to, they are now saying they can't find anyone to carry out the inspection but they will send it to a company who make a similar product so that they can test the appliance and determine the problem. That's great up to a point but the company the vendors propose test the appliance also supply the vendor with another similar machine so there's a conflict of interest.

I also have another of these machines that I use daily and this has made me very wary of using that when we don't know what the problem is.

They are also fairly costly machines at £850 each and it is probably only about 7 months old

I'd also like to add that neither the fuse in the plug or the fuse in the back of the machine blew during the incident

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply, I'll be happy to elaborate if anyone need more nfo on the product in question

Many thanks

Dean

 

[Sidewinder]

Welcome to the forum Dean.

You will need a competent person who can act as an independent professional witness in this matter I suspect.

"They" will need adequate insurance cover to act on your behalf, and must be competent to give evidence in this matter.

There may be members close to you, but, if not I do know a few who are further away, that can act on your behalf, however, this is not going to be cheap.

 

[ProDave]

Just what is this £850 appliance?

At just 7 months old, it is under guarantee. so forget all this testing stuff, you just want it fixed or replaced for free. there can be no argument.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

They are also fairly costly machines at £850 each and it is probably only about 7 months old

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply, I'll be happy to elaborate if anyone need more nfo on the product in question

Many thanks

Dean

Probably about 7 months old???

Is it or isn't it???

If less than a year I wouldn't be wasting my time and effort investigating a problem for a manuafcture..

Just go back to your supplier and either get a refund or a replacement applaiance...

Sale of goods act / supply of goods and services act.. etc...

UNLESS...

you were using it in an inappropriate manner that it was not designed for!?

Why no description of what it actually is??

:C

 

[Dean Hankin]

Just what is this £850 appliance?

At just 7 months old, it is under guarantee. so forget all this testing stuff, you just want it fixed or replaced for free. there can be no argument.

Hi Dave,

It's called an Angel juicer, it makes fruit and vegetable juice. I would post a link to it but the forum wont let me until I have 10 posts

I know what your saying re the 7 month thing, I have tried to be as nice as I can with the company who supplied the juicer but I think what they want to have a look at it basically to see if the thing has blown up due to me tipping liquid into it or something of that nature. Basically they want to have a look to see if they can squirm out of their obligation.

As I have 2 of the juicers bought 6 months apart maybe they are going to try and fit me up with some nonsense about invalid use or try to say it is the older machine that's blown and the guarantee is invalid, it's not quite as cut and dried as it first appears and I'm trying not to upset them.

They had suggested that we go down this route so I'm going to follow them down the rabbit hole to see where it leads, any costs incurred in the testing are their problem. 

The other problem I have with this situation is that I have another machine which could be dangerous and I have friends in the UK and abroad who use these things so I think it only correct to warn these people of the potential safety risks of using the machine. Maybe I'm being over sensitive on this and it was just one of those things that went wrong once and will never happen again but due to the violent nature of the machines failure I've been left very concerned.

Hi Sidewinder,

Thanks for the welcome and thank you for the reply.

I'll see what they come back with tomorrow as I have now pressed them on the fact that it should be replaced without argument, if we do go down the route of getting the thing checked out then I'll probably be needing some details from you.

I'll let you know how things pan out though as it's a bit of an odd situation

Many thanks

Dean

 

[ProDave]

Ths one http://www.juiceland.co.uk/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&pg=prod&ref=ANGELIA&affl=GOOANGEL&gclid=COrmrLrJ9LwCFbLJtAod-BkA4g

Is this in a commercial kitchen? It doesn't sound like something you would find in a domestic kitchen.

It still does not alter the fact the sale of goods act requres a 1 year guarantee. The serial numbers will prove this is not the older one. Just tell them politely you want it repaired or replaced promptly or you will be involving trading standards.  Then they can take the old one away for analysis if they wish.

I do have to ask though if it's a commercial kitchen you do have all the appliances regularly PA tested don't you? Otherwise how do you know the flex has not been damaged by misuse? 

 

[steptoe]

hopefully not Dave

** No warranty for Commercial Use.

 

[Dean Hankin]

Hi Trailer boy,

Without getting out my previous credit card statements I only know roughly when I got the thing

I'm talking to the supplier, they seem to be reluctant to offer a straight forward refund, THEY have suggested testing the thing not me, I'm just getting the ammo i need to fire back at them, hence the question on here

I'm very well aware of consumer law, I've had a furniture manufacturing business for the last 23 years, as I told the bloke on the phone, if it was a customer of mine we wouldn't be talking about this it would of already been resolved with a refund or replacement.

Why didn't I tell you what the product was? Did you really need to know? I was enquiring about testing of products and I would be very surprised if anyone has heard of one of these machines They're not very affordable and you can't just go and get one from the high street, the guy who i got the machines from are the sole UK distributor and they're a tiny company.

Not sure how you can push vegetables into a juicer in an inappropriate manner but there you go

 

[Andy™]

Why didn't I tell you what the product was? Did you really need to know?

well if you want proper information & advice, then you not going to get that only supplying some of the details.

 

[Dean Hankin]

Hi Dave,

It's in my home, the machine is designed for home use, it's designed primarily to produce wheat grass juice. Wheat grass juice cant be made in a normal blender because they don't break down the cellulose in the fibres of the grass. The human body cannot break down cellulose so this is the action that the machine is designed to achieve, it chews it up for you basically

I have 1 at home because I take a juice diet for my rhumatoid arthritis, I also have one at the office so I can also have juice when I am at work

We haven't abused the thing we use it daily and it was perfectly fine until it blew up

well if you want proper information & advice, then you not going to get that only supplying some of the details.

I don't see how what you are saying is relevant, do you spend all of your time on here trying to create arguments where there are none?

PRO DAVE

yes that one but it's the 7500 model with the reverse function and the so called motor protection system

That's also the company in question

well if you want proper information & advice, then you not going to get that only supplying some of the details.

I don't need advice from an all rounder I was hoping for a professional

 

[Andy™]

well if you want proper information & advice, then you not going to get that only supplying some of the details.

I don't see how what you are saying is relevant, do you spend all of your time on here trying to create arguments where there are none?

asking question about something you dont specify isnt much help. its a bit like saying 'my car is broke. whats wrong with it?'

 

[binky]

my microwave went in a similar fashion, didn't even take out the RCBO before I switched it off at the plug. Quite scary all that arcing and sparking.

 

[Steve3948]

What size fuse did you have in the plug top ?

 

[Evans Electric]

Thing is , if you received a shock during the fault  from it's metal casing there may be an earthing problem on your installation ,  an RCD would almost certainly have tripped .

Does the machine have any standards printed on it . ?   Where was it made ?  

And like the others ,  its under warranty ,  play the shock thing up a bit more and get their Technical Rep off his ass and out there .

Thing is even with PAT (Portable Appliance Testing)    it could have tested OK the day before .

Sounds a lot like the Shellac on the motor windings failed  ........it happens with imported transformers these days .......make 'em cheap and flood 'em into the UK ......they'll take anything as long as its cheap .

 

[ProDave]

So if you just bought it and used it at home, then there should be no quibble,  the 1 year guarantee should stand.

So tell the supplier to get his finger out and sort it or you go to trading standards.

 

[Andy™]

So if you just bought it and used it at home, then there should be no quibble,  the 1 year guarantee should stand.

So tell the supplier to get his finger out and sort it or you go to trading standards.

the seller in your link, which is where he says he bought it, states 3 years warranty. so shouldnt be any hassle

 

[Dean Hankin]

The fuse in the plug is the same one as it came with, I haven't touched it. 

I know that the fuse hasn't gone becasue becasue theres one of those little illuminated switches on the back to turn it on and off and that was still lit up as it was doing it's thing

asking question about something you dont specify isnt much help. its a bit like saying 'my car is broke. whats wrong with it?'

I did specify, I asked for an electrical engineer who could help in such a situation, the product is really of no consequence.

Besides i still give the supplier and the company that make the juicer the respect they are due until they give me reason to think otherwise. i'm not going to come on here and verbally masturbate about things that have not yet come to pass, it's bad form and it's not correct to tarnish these peoples reputations in a public forum without first giving them enough time to take the appropriate action.

 

[Andy™]

I did specify, I asked for an electrical engineer who could help in such a situation, the product is really of no consequence.

the product makes all the difference. how do you expect to find someone who is able to do what you ask if you dont state what the product actually is?

 

[Dean Hankin]

Thing is , if you received a shock during the fault  from it's metal casing there may be an earthing problem on your installation ,  an RCD would almost certainly have tripped .

Does the machine have any standards printed on it . ?   Where was it made ?  

And like the others ,  its under warranty ,  play the shock thing up a bit more and get their Technical Rep off his ass and out there .

Thing is even with PAT (Portable Appliance Testing)    it could have tested OK the day before .

Sounds a lot like the Shellac on the motor windings failed  ........it happens with imported transformers these days .......make 'em cheap and flood 'em into the UK ......they'll take anything as long as its cheap .

There was electricity coming out of the back of the casing in long blue fingers, I'm kind of guessing it was at the point that I started to feel it's power

As for standards it does have the CE mark but I see from this forum that doesn't mean an awful lot, I'm not very well versed on electrical standards so you'll have to forgive me for that, the machines are made in South Korea I believe

the product makes all the difference. how do you expect to find someone who is able to do what you ask if you dont state what the product actually is?

Ok I'm not going to argue all night with you on a technicality, if you want your little badge and a pat on the head then you've got it, well done. Like I said what is the point of dragging people through the mud on a public forum for something that hasn't fully panned out yet? I came here for advice on the situation that is developing. I don't have all of the answers, I am looking for them now

 

[batty]

Does your house have any RCD protection?