fcu for fire alarm

[moose man]

hi all

installed a secret key dp fcu today on a fire alarm

a company came in to do the 6 month inspections

and told me it should be a fcu only

but i said you need a point of isolation

for mantenance and a fuse should not be used to switch on and of the load

just wandering if i was right in saying this as thay put it down as not complying with the bs fire regs

 

[das_ist]

as far as im aware, you were right to install a dp fcu with secret key. fire alarm panels have to have a local point of isolation and secret ket is only way to prevent people tampering with the power supply to the fap. its in the fire alarm regs somewhere. what size fuse did you put in the fcu?

 

[PC Electrics]

AFAIK you did right.

 

[wozz]

im not much of a FA man myself , but what you done sounds reasonable, but does it really HAVE to have local isolation?

I would have thought the mcb/fuse/mccb would have provided lockable remote isolation.

 

[Evans Electric]

Unswitched spurs have been used for years , has something changed ?

 

[a1spark]

[QUOTE=moose man;159195]hi all

installed a secret key dp fcu today on a fire alarm

a company came in to do the 6 month inspections

and told me it should be a fcu only

but i said you need a point of isolation

for mantenance and a fuse should not be used to switch on and of the load

just wandering if i was right in saying this as thay put it down as not complying with the bs fire regs

Cant see a problem with what you did mm. whats up with the Fire Test fellas .dont they carry the little fish keys or what?---The numbskulls !

a1spark.

 

[switch10]

i have allways fited a unswitched fuse spur for the past 11 years and not had any problems with regards to british standards, and they inspected 5 jobs every year as reuested for my ukas accreditation

 

[stani]

as far as I can remember if there is a switch or secret key switch it can be turned off, it can also be unintentionally forgotten to be switched back on, the coroner wil not accept I forgot to switch it on. Normally you will see the fuse removed and replace knowing the system is back running.. The other thing in HMO's someone will always get hold of a key and if the alarm goes off if will be just switched off and then left.this leaves the occupiers at risk. In the event of a fatality everyone will be covering thier backs, it then goes down the line to who installed, is it correct, if not why not, its your fault=go to jail, pay out lots of

 

[Andy™]

as far as I can remember if there is a switch or secret key switch it can be turned off,

if its a fish key switch, then id guess in 99% of cases, it would be easier for them to remove a fuse in a fused spur than find a fish key to operate switch. failing that, just turn off the breaker/remove fuse.

 

[Manator]

as far as I can remember if there is a switch or secret key switch it can be turned off, it can also be unintentionally forgotten to be switched back on, the coroner wil not accept I forgot to switch it on. Normally you will see the fuse removed and replace knowing the system is back running.. The other thing in HMO's someone will always get hold of a key and if the alarm goes off if will be just switched off and then left.this leaves the occupiers at risk. In the event of a fatality everyone will be covering thier backs, it then goes down the line to who installed, is it correct, if not why not, its your fault=go to jail, pay out lots of

 

[moose man]

as far as im aware, you were right to install a dp fcu with secret key. fire alarm panels have to have a local point of isolation and secret ket is only way to prevent people tampering with the power supply to the fap. its in the fire alarm regs somewhere. what size fuse did you put in the fcu?

There is a 10A CB TYPE B FCU 5A PANNEL 3A

 

[moose man]

[quote name='Andy

 

[moose man]

as far as I can remember if there is a switch or secret key switch it can be turned off, it can also be unintentionally forgotten to be switched back on, the coroner wil not accept I forgot to switch it on. Normally you will see the fuse removed and replace knowing the system is back running.. The other thing in HMO's someone will always get hold of a key and if the alarm goes off if will be just switched off and then left.this leaves the occupiers at risk. In the event of a fatality everyone will be covering thier backs, it then goes down the line to who installed, is it correct, if not why not, its your fault=go to jail, pay out lots of

 

[moose man]

im not much of a FA man myself , but what you done sounds reasonable, but does it really HAVE to have local isolation? I would have thought the mcb/fuse/mccb would have provided lockable remote isolation.

The db is on the other side of the factory so it more then 3 mtrs from the pannel

 

[a1spark]

Hi M.M . BS 5839-1 2002 requires any switch / isolator or protective device that is capable of disconnecting the main supply to a Fire Alarm system to be located in a position only accessible to authorized persons OR protection against unauthorised operation to be provided ,by what it describes as , A Special Tool and goes on to state this device should be Double Pole.

There is no requirement in BS 5839 -1 for a protective device at this means of isolation, although one can be installed.

-From that I conclude that your method is completely in line with the Regs, and the Testing Company are working to pre 2002 standards....Ask them to show you the Regs that state their method is compliant mate !

a1spark

 

[moose man]

Hi M.M . BS 5839-1 2002 requires any switch / isolator or protective device that is capable of disconnecting the main supply to a Fire Alarm system to be located in a position only accessible to authorized persons OR protection against unauthorised operation to be provided ,by what it describes as , A Special Tool and goes on to state this device should be Double Pole.There is no requirement in BS 5839 -1 for a protective device at this means of isolation, although one can be installed.

-From that I conclude that your method is completely in line with the Regs, and the Testing Company are working to pre 2002 standards....Ask them to show you the Regs that state their method is compliant mate !

a1spark

thanks for that a1spark can i download the BS583 anywere because i think that the company that comes in are riping the company off i work for

as a maintenance spark they are saying that the call points are not up to current standerd and just replace them with a charge

they have been coming in for years before i taken the job over

but i did here that they work on commision

so i want to find out the current standerd for call points

thanks moose man

 

[wozz]

The db is on the other side of the factory so it more then 3 mtrs from the pannel

i would have thought 537.2.1.5 allowed this.

 

[loonytoon]

I always use these for my fire panels.

The fuse is on the rear so can only be isolated with the key.

I also put 1 key in the panel, the other on a keyring with the break glass reset keys.