Kitchen Ring Spurred From A Socket.

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cjonesguitar

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Hi, i posted this before and there were mixed opinions. First of all would an electrician work on this? I'm more concerned he will demand that existing cabling conduit needs to be replaced opening a can or worms. Last time I posted this there was debate.... my guess it that it maybe a 13A socket and will not take it but then again I don't know this maybe he picked up a higher amp one if exists?

A kitchen ring of a flat let by myself. A wired fuse has blown. I have a feeling that is not the best set up. From my memory there is an old shower cable (capable of taking high-amp maybe 30amp) spurring a kitchen ring using first double socket to run the loop from. I have been told this is okay from a couple of electricians however I have a little bit of doubt that this what caused the fuse to blow. Apart from this and the fuse box(s) being old is I cannot think of any other fault.
 
If you like, the main fuse board has two components the main fuse box containing all sockets (except kitchen ring), lights, cooker and immersion heater. And a second component, added some years later, consisting from my memory of a 30 amp fuse which was later redirected to feed a newer kitchen ring.
 
The cable then goes up by a conduit (surface mounted) thorough the loft space runs over the top of the insulation back down into the kitchen (again you'll see the conduit in the corner) to the first double plug socket (behind fridge) is where the kitchen ring is spurred from. The plastic conduit just above the socket I remember seemed to be a real tight squeeze to get into position, but the electrician at the time got it in. maybe the plastic is too tight on the cable. I have seen the other cable before the kitchen went in, no other issues from sight but things may have changed.
I would like to think that the old shower cable can still be used and a 30A junction box put in the loft or a socket with an extra deep wall box (if makes sense). It bothers me a little bit as it is really down to who ever inspects it.

 
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providing its wired as a ring connected to the end of the old circuit (of suitable sized cable) then i cant see any problems. but a fuse will not blow for no reason - either you are overloading the circuit or there is a fault

 
This has been discussed before, and named the "lollipop" circuit.

Providing the cable feeding the lollipop is indeed capable of carrying the full current it is fused at, then there is no issue, apart from perhaps it all being a tight fit in the first socket.

The circuit configuration won't be the reason the fuse blew, that will simply be too many things plugged in at once, or some other fault on the circuit..

EDIT  Typing at the same time as Andy who said much the same thing.

 
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I know i'm repeating myself. Could the first socket really take 30A in and a spur of a kitchen ring? Someone is going to look this week. No problem for three years then it blow yesterday morning! The socket did get hot but then it has a fridge running from it constantly. Boiler, washing machine, microwave, kettle... alot of things all at the same time would need to blow it...

 
yes. exactly the same way as every other socket on the circuit would in normal use. its also perfectly acceptable to wire a radial using 4mm (or above) cable on a 32a circuit, where the full 32a could be expected to go through the sockets

 
You say the rewireable fuse blew

Did it BLOW.....big bang and loads of melted copper snot within the fuse holder

Did it melt through overload........shiny wire still connected at each of the screws with the wire getting darker towards the melted point where there are two small,bobs of melted fuse wire

Too,many people just change the fusewire without looking at what is left

Just saying

 
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Reading that thread, I like the idea of this post http://talk.electricianforum.co.uk/topic/14299-how-many-cables-into-a-double-socket/page-4#entry226238 by daveygh, but I would have all the similar cables in the same terminals, just in case the cooker switch gets switched off.you still seem not to have taken the wires out of the terminals to see if the 6mm cable has been trimmed to fit. Perhaps the sparky will check this on their visit.

I would be worried about the socket outlet getting hot too, to be honest.

 
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the reason i didn't check is because they are sooooo tight and award!

 
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the conduit is all painted up shut (and it is long runs all the way through two floors)... it is really a can of worms if opened to replace cable inside. there is a days work making good its on a stair case so ladder work!

i like the idea of connectors chased into the wall. the double socket is surface mounted by the way so there is room behind there to chase further back resulting in a neat job.

 
Electrician looked. Said the fuse may have had an issue for a long time. He is going to get a new one. No electrical faults. Also he had a neat idea the put an addition small consumer unit next the the first plug although he mentioned it is a grey area, it should be really be fused between changing cable size.

 
going to get a new one... does he not keep basic fuses with him?

mini CU isnt a bad idea, but not always necessary. as for fuse between changing cable size, that doesnt really apply here anyway. whats he going to do - put another 30a fuse to protect the ring at the end of the cable, already on a 30a fuse?

 
going to get a new one... does he not keep basic fuses with him?

mini CU isnt a bad idea, but not always necessary. as for fuse between changing cable size, that doesnt really apply here anyway. whats he going to do - put another 30a fuse to protect the ring at the end of the cable, already on a 30a fuse?

Still don't understand wtf is going on. Any forum sparks nearby the OP?

 
whats not to understand? he has a ring, but instead of the usual 2x 2.5 being connected directly to the fuse, they are connected to the fuse via a length of 6mm

 

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