Lets stand together!

[green-hornet]

The title says it all.

We need to stand together to stamp out the bad practice that has infiltrated our proffesion.

I will admit now before all of you, that I joined the NICEIC because I thought napit and elesca was for those who could never pass an niceic assesment.

For that I am truly sorry to those of you who have shown by your actions on this forum, to be worthy aponants.

However what I would like to see is for all members of this forum to stand together and support each other which to a large extent it does.

I have a few large contracts due and one electrician who is a member of this forum will if he is not busy will be included in my plans for the future, simply because he is local and is an active member on this forum.

I do get boiled, and hot headed, but thats because I have invested a lot of money in my business, and I have lost out to the sweet talking con men, who give the customer nothing but a bad installation.

So lets all stand together and name and shame those who think they can get away with being an electrician, and refuse to give a certificate, or run a mile when the building control officer appears.

I have based this topic on a phone call I made tonight.

A flyer was posted through my door advertising every job you could ever need in your home.

I called the number (a mobile) and asked for a fuseboard exchange to the current regulations.

I met the bloke and took him to a property that was wired in 1957 I know this because I still have the original property documents and sales invoice.

The lad that turned up knew nothing about anything other than to suggest that everything was upgraded and would require a full rewire.

I told him that the last electrician had provided a certificate of the testing that was carried out and that the wires where ok it just needed the fuses changing, but I have no idea what he meant "playing my usual dumb".

He came back with a load of mumbo jumbo as they do , then I asked him if he was part p registered for the building control this was his answer!!!

Oh thats just for those domestic installer schemes those who do a two week course we are approve by city and guilds we are above them and dont need any part p regulations.

You have to laugh, I will see them in court next time I am asked to give evidence on ********s.

 

[Apache]

Horny - you are, of course, correct in everything you say. I do tend to think that a part of the issue is the education of the customers. They need to know WHY they need a certificate. When they come to sell their house it MUST be produced. These days you can't get away with no MOT certificate.

Every industry feels like people are out to get them, and parts of their job are being stolen, but it's happening everywhere. My vet example would have roles traditionally done by a vet now being undertaken by lay individuals. This includes cattle foot trimming, cattle and sheep pregnancy scanning, embryo transfer, artificial insemination of cattle, sheep and horses, various 'advisers' and 'consultants'. These jobs have NO protection and any of you can call yourself a cattle foot trimmer tomorrow and start wrecking cows feet, at least you have part P! I have an act of parliament that means only I can diagnose and operate - the other half of my work can be done by ANYONE .

The point of my post is really to educate the client why you are the best man (or woman ) for the job. What benefits you give over the no certs cash in hand cowboy. You can't expect them to know.

We all need to be better at 'selling' ourselves and our services. No longer have any of us got the monopoly and our market shares will be reduced. It comes down (IMO) to marketing and education. That way people can make an informed choice.

 

[green-hornet]

I have got to the point now where I refuse cash payments,

I accept all cards or a cheque and I tell the customer that that protects them.

I think I will become a builder, they can do wonders with brick.

They can make them transfer electrical current to socket outlets without ever touching the electrical circuit or telling building control;

I am one bitter person I know, but we, thats all of us let it happen,

Bring on the revolution

Shop the cowboy, then make him wear the tutu.

 

[D Brennan]

Agreed, i loose work each week due to cowboys and so called electricians usually to landlords who couldnt care less.

But its not just the cowboys that are the problem, i went to a house of a plumber i no the other day, he is renting it off a very very rich landlord, the house is a new build in the middle of some terrace houses as he owned the terrace next door and decided to build on the spare land, there has been a 16th edition split load consumer unit put in , i had a quick look at that, the RCD has been bypassed as the bloke said to my friend it was not needed, no main bonds, 240v spots in bathroom, annyway the list goes on and there are a few things potentially very very dangerous. Next thing the building inspector comes to sign the building off etc, and from nwere the landlord has all the right certification he needs to show the building inspector Gas/ EIC, the gas is totally wrongly installed, ie not sleeved through cavities.#

No1 has every been out to the house to do these tests as the people who did the work were handymen yet some1 has issued a eic for the whole job without even seeing the property and the same for the gas cert.

 

[batty]

Agreed, i loose work each week due to cowboys and so called electricians usually to landlords who couldnt care less.But its not just the cowboys that are the problem, i went to a house of a plumber i no the other day, he is renting it off a very very rich landlord, the house is a new build in the middle of some terrace houses as he owned the terrace next door and decided to build on the spare land, there has been a 16th edition split load consumer unit put in , i had a quick look at that, the RCD has been bypassed as the bloke said to my friend it was not needed, no main bonds, 240v spots in bathroom, annyway the list goes on and there are a few things potentially very very dangerous. Next thing the building inspector comes to sign the building off etc, and from nwere the landlord has all the right certification he needs to show the building inspector Gas/ EIC, the gas is totally wrongly installed, ie not sleeved through cavities.#

No1 has every been out to the house to do these tests as the people who did the work were handymen yet some1 has issued a eic for the whole job without even seeing the property and the same for the gas cert.

Trouble is Don these jobs never seem to go wrong and if they do whoever signed the certs probably will be in Spain. I personally will not do a bad job but luckily I seem to be still finding enough work.

batty

 

[sparky999]

right certification he needs to show the building inspector Gas/ EIC, the gas is totally wrongly installed, ie not sleeved through cavities.#No1 has every been out to the house to do these tests as the people who did the work were handymen yet some1 has issued a eic for the whole job without even seeing the property and the same for the gas cert.

I thought u werent suppose to put gas pipes in cavitys well thts wht i was tolded the other day by a gas fitter.

Good post horny

Been doing ur homework havent u inviting a spark around lol.

 

[M107]

I'm all for shopping the cowboys & have indeed informed LBC of a few non-notified works that I know have been undertaken by a local handyman/builder & home owner, but to date have heard nothing back.

It would help if bco's/niceic/napit/eca & the rest actually chased up any information we gave them.

It seems locally I also have a landscape gardener that is also putting power out to sheds, as I chased up a quote only to be told by the customer

"oh sorry should have got back to you, but the landscape bloke is going to do the shed & garden lighting while doing the decking. he said he could do it cheaper than you"

Splendid crack on then X(

(for all I know he may be capable of doing the work, it was the fact he halved what I'd quoted so you just know it'll be a ****e job not tested not notified & definitely not certificated.)

 

[M107]

I thought u werent suppose to put gas pipes in cavitys well thts wht i was tolded the other day by a gas fitter.Good post horny

Been doing ur homework havent u inviting a spark around lol.

When the pipework bridges a cavity or goes through a wall it should be sleeved, that's what my corgi registered mate told me.

 

[Evans Electric]

I wondered what that buzzing noise was , calm down you great blooming wasp , you'll have a seizure ! I agree with you BTW but I have become very cynical over the (too) many years . We once reported some disgraceful work to the NICEIC , we were members too back then, but they were not interested in doing anything.

I once phoned the ECA Technical for advice on plastic plumbing fittings appearing all over and losing continuity from our main bonding. They said " Why are you so bothered ?" Put your main bond on and stop worrying !!

So I just knuckle down and try to keep earning a living, there is always someone waiting to evacuate their bowels upon you from a great height.

Deke

 

[batty]

I wondered what that buzzing noise was , calm down you great blooming wasp , you'll have a seizure ! I agree with you BTW but I have become very cynical over the (too) many years . We once reported some disgraceful work to the NICEIC , we were members too back then, but they were not interested in doing anything.I once phoned the ECA Technical for advice on plastic plumbing fittings appearing all over and losing continuity from our main bonding. They said " Why are you so bothered ?" Put your main bond on and stop worrying !!

So I just knuckle down and try to keep earning a living, there is always someone waiting to evacuate their bowels upon you from a great height.

Deke

Sandra

But when you have got NICEIC contractrors putting in 30mA main switch Rcd boards in February this year they obviosly don't give a sh.t about what there contractors are doing let alone anybody else.

Batty

 

[green-hornet]

I wondered what that buzzing noise was , calm down you great blooming wasp , you'll have a seizure ! I agree with you BTW but I have become very cynical over the (too) many years . We once reported some disgraceful work to the NICEIC , we were members too back then, but they were not interested in doing anything.I once phoned the ECA Technical for advice on plastic plumbing fittings appearing all over and losing continuity from our main bonding. They said " Why are you so bothered ?" Put your main bond on and stop worrying !!

So I just knuckle down and try to keep earning a living, there is always someone waiting to evacuate their bowels upon you from a great height.

Deke

Good point, I have notified trading standards and recieved a similar response.

I have an empty house to rewire soon so I may get him back and let him do it, if some spark signs it off I will get two birds with one stone, go to the national press and show how part p should be abolished for something that can be enforced.

 

[Tarzan]

Me and my lovely Mrs M went into B&Q today for some plants as you do. Whilst Mrs M busied herself choosing her plants I went off for a wander as you do. I walked down the electrical isle, and was amazed at how much stuff they had ranging from jbs to sockets, t&e, conduit,trunking, capping, clips, etc etc etc etc! So how can you enforce the current part p if Joe Bloggs can walk into B&Q, pick up his sockets and cable, call at his customer, throw it in for cash, walk away laughing. His customer is happy as she has had her work done for a few quid less than a "proper spark". Its a difficult dilemma.

 

[batty]

Me and my lovely Mrs M went into B&Q today for some plants as you do. Whilst Mrs M busied herself choosing her plants I went off for a wander as you do. I walked down the electrical isle, and was amazed at how much stuff they had ranging from jbs to sockets, t&e, conduit,trunking, capping, clips, etc etc etc etc! So how can you enforce the current part p if Joe Bloggs can walk into B&Q, pick up his sockets and cable, call at his customer, throw it in for cash, walk away laughing. His customer is happy as she has had her work done for a few quid less than a "proper spark". Its a difficult dilemma.

But if he does work in a kitchen or bathroom wiring will be harmonised colours and if Mrs fingy moves she will need a certificate as work has been done after 2005. Estate agents ask for certificates these days and insurers are also asking for certificates in commercial and eventually it will be domestic so she won't have a certificate but what the heck no one cares anyway. Although if there was a fire maybe the insurers would not pay out.

Batty

 

[Tarzan]

I like the insurance route! those sneeky B*****d's will do anything not to pay out. if the general public realised this i am certain they would employ a registerd contractor

 

[batty]

I like the insurance route! those sneeky B*****d's will do anything not to pay out. if the general public realised this i am certain they would employ a registerd contractor

I could honestly see this happening. I have a football club and a stone masons who both need certs for insurance at the moment and i am sure insurance companies are going to ask for them on domestic.

 

[green-hornet]

A large factory near me needs one for their insurance, I did a recce and would think its about 90% fail, and thats just on visual.

I think the insurance companies are getting a bit tougher on the job so it may be that we will all be working flat out soon.

 

[Andy™]

I think the insurance companies are getting a bit tougher on the job so it may be that we will all be working flat out soon.

probably because its not much extra work for them to want certs/paper trail for works done, but it could be saving them millions in claims they dont have to pay. so its a win for them, and slowly helping to get rid of cowboys (by slowly, i mean by 2098 there may be a few less cowboys around doing cash jobs/no cert)

 

[Blue Fox]

I fully agree with everything that has been said above and always give certs and work properly etc etc, BUT I've been conducting a small experiment over the last few months asking all my customers if they had heard of part p - 95% havn't. I can also see it from the customers point of veiw- they get a quote in from a registered spark and one from sundance and sundance comes in half the price - they know they are not going to get quite as good a job but they think well if it works.... Are the certs actually followed up if a house is sold or anyhting - I doubt it, if people are reported for not working within part p is anything done - I doubt it in most cases unless its a cast iron case. Part P is a complete waste of time as it stands at the moment. The general public need educating on what part p is and the dangers of incorrect electrical work, everyone has heard of Corgi for gas who has heard of ELECSA, NAPIT NICEIC etc? Once the public are educated the John Waynes of this world won't get 95% of the jobs and will slowly die out then the ones that are left should be clamped down on. Then all home owners should be required to produce certs for all electrical work done when selling or renting a home. Also all the time places like B&Q are selling consumer units with a 6 foot by 4 foot sign above them telling people how to fit them of course people are going to buy them. I had to go up there the other day to get a new lawn mower and went to have a look at the electrical bits and in my local one they even have a leaflet telling epople how to fit an electric shower!!! Then in small letters at the bottom it says something about part p. All these places should be stopped from selling parts like consumer units, why do they need to sell 6mm or 10mm cable - the only reason you need that is for a shower or cooker etc - all notifiable jobs that need certifying as no electrician is going to buy parts from there at the prices they charge. THey should be forced to put up big signs to inform people about notified work and non notified work. But non of this is sadly going to happen.

 

[Robojin]

THey should be forced to put up big signs to inform people about notified work and non notified work. But non of this is sadly going to happen.

They do, I checked, next time your in store, look up about 10ft they have a nice little piece about if unsure getting your work checked by an electrician (as if!! X( ), so it they ever find themselves on Watchdog they will just point upwards and say "not our fault we posted a notice" I doubt Joe Public has ever looked up at them

 

[Blue Fox]

The other funny thing is in my local one the c/u wiring diagram they have is for the 16th edition and at the bottom says so - how many joe public know what 16th edition is!!