living room light replacement

[richkempo]

Hello! 

I started out very confident that I could sort this, but failed. I did take a picture beforehand but I've now managed to lose/delete it - not very helpful!

I have two separate ceiling lights in my living room, one double switch by the front door which control the living room and the stairs lights, and one further single switch at the other end of the living room which only controls the living room light. The light closet to the front door was very straight forward, it just had one grey cable with 1 x black, 1 x red, 1 x earth cable. The second light fitting has four grey cables. Three seem to have the usual 1 x black 1 x red 1 x earth cables within, but one only has one red cable. In the current setup (see picture in link below), the rest of the lights in the house work, but I cant seem to get the two living room lights to work. Any idea on how I wire it so that it works again? My new light fittings are new with Live, Neutral, and earth connections and the old lights were the old fashioned ceiling roses.

Any help, greatly appreciated. 

Cheers. 

 

[Andy™]

at a guess id say your single red is the switch live from the switch and the other unconnected cable is the feed to the other light but you will need a multimeter to confirm this. also be aware that the unconnected wiring may be live

 

[richkempo]

If that was the case, would I then need to wire that switch live of the single light switch together with the switch live of the OTHER light switch, and also my 1 x earth + 1 x neutral ? 

 

[Andy™]

yes but thats if the wiring is the way i think it is, but like i said you will need a multimeter to check it first otherwise it might go bang, break the light switch, plunge the house into darkness or even kill you

 

[ProDave]

Unscrew the light switch for this light and tell us what wires are connected to it.

Do you remember how many red wires went into the middle set of terminals on the old ceiling rose?
 

 

[richkempo]

Really cant remember, was 2-3 I think. 

The following is the single switch that only does the living room lights, and the second picture is the double switch which does living room and stairs. 

 

[ProDave]

Can you confirm the light you are trying to replace has 2 way switching? i.e. you can turn it on or off by both the switches pictured in your last post.

Can we have a better picture of the bottom one showing what cables go into what terminals on the switch?
 

 

[richkempo]

Yes, two way switching. 

 

[ProDave]

All I can say for sure is that single red will be the switched L going to the L terminal of your light fitting.

The "spare" red and black probably go with the others but there's no guarantee of that.

Somewhat unusual wiring. If I am understanding it, that light does NOT get it's L feed from the L's looped through the fitting but somewhere else. Candidate for borrowed N (or L?)
 

 

[Andy™]

agree on the borrowed neutral, live is definitely  from another light, possibly another circuit. more I&T required to confirm

 

[binky]

2 way switching done with 2 core cable?

 

[Andy™]

that wiring method is very common (well, up here it is) on stairs where its very often is a borrowed neutral

 

[Lurch]

The "spare" red and black probably go with the others

The "spare" red is most probably the loop to the other light if all of the other lights on the circuit work.

Somewhat unusual wiring. If I am understanding it, that light does NOT get it's L feed from the L's looped through the fitting but somewhere else.

Seems fairly normal, I do this quite often and see it quite a lot. It does seem to be more popular in the North though, from about Nottinghamish upwards IME.

Candidate for borrowed N (or L?)

Worth checking but I wouldn't say it was a candidate for it especially.

 

[phil d]

The "spare" red is most probably the loop to the other light if all of the other lights on the circuit work.

Seems fairly normal, I do this quite often and see it quite a lot. It does seem to be more popular in the North though, from about Nottinghamish upwards IME.

Worth checking but I wouldn't say it was a candidate for it especially.

Firstly I was wondering if nottinghamish was a typo, should it have been spelt knottinghamish, and if this was some form of bondage peculiar to Scotland, lol. Then I got back to the original post and wondered why the op didn't take a photo before he started pulling the wires out, a photo and a few markings with a sharpie would have saved him a load of grief.

 

[richkempo]

Because the OP deleted the photo and has been hitting his head against his desk ever since. There was even a possibility of licking the wires just to end the torment, but that's a last resort

 

[phil d]

Because the OP deleted the photo and has been hitting his head against his desk ever since. There was even a possibility of licking the wires just to end the torment, but that's a last resort

It may be the best option mate if you are married, the grief goes on long after the original problem is dealt with. lol

 

[steptoe]

At risk if this being totally wrong,

3 blacks together and to N of light

Single red and 'extra' red together and to L of light

All earths together and to E of light

Turn the power OFF before touching anything.

ps , and totally irrelevant to your issue, it does indeed look like a borrowed N at landing light.

15th edition standard wiring by looks of it.

 

[Lurch]

it does indeed look like a borrowed N at landing light.

Unusual to have your landing light in the living room though.

 

[Doc Hudson]

I know of a few open plan type houses, front door straight into lounge, stairs also straight into lounge. Basically no hallway. So lounge switch is double for lounge & landing light.

Doc H. 

 

[steptoe]

I know of a few open plan type houses, front door straight into lounge, stairs also straight into lounge. Basically no hallway. So lounge switch is double for lounge & landing light.

Doc H. 

You been round my house @Doc Hudson

But its not borrowed anymore, 

I splashed out and bought the landing light its own N when I rewired,