Outdoor Sockets / Spurred Off Kitchen

[Kass]

First of all I’m just a general DIYer and have no Electrical Training. Although I can wire up lights and change sockets etc.

I have a roofed decking porch outside my Kitchen and I want to put an outdoor waterproof Socket (2 Gang), from the outdoor socket I have bought myself a waterproof electrical box with a multiplug. The Electrical box will house LED lights for the garden and the Decking. The spare 2 Gang Socket will probably be used if I need to plug in my Drill, Or maybe a Patio Heater. Basically I’m not going to be running a lot off the multi plug sockets.

The way I was going to rig this up was to buy some 2.5mm Cable and wire up the 2 Gang Socket, And then Put a Plug on the end and plug it into my Kitchen socket. Ive since thought that maybe it would be better to have 2 Separate outdoor sockets but I need some advice on how to do this.

Is it just as simple as changing my indoor Kitchen socket to a Fused Switched Spur? And run my 2.5mm Outside to my first socket, then continue to my Second Socket?

I've taken the faceplate off my Kitchen Socket and it appears to have three live wires going into it, a cable coming from below and one above, So i assume this is somewhere in the middle of a ring circuit?

I Do have another socket that seems as though it's on the end of a ring, it only has three wires going into it, but this would be a pain to wire up to the back garden as it's at the front of the property. But i assume I can put a fused spur onto this and continue a ringed circuit?

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Welcome to the forum. First point of observation would be too many assumptions. You cannot determine if a circuit is a ring or radial just by counting the number of cables in the back of an accessory. For example; 1 cable could be an end of a radial or an end of a spur from an ring.   2 cables could be part of a ring or part of a radial.   3 cables could be a spur branch point off a ring or a branch in a radial.    4 cables could be two spurs branched off a ring or a multiple branch in a radial or a bridge crossing a ring.  The cables would need checking with a continuity tester to verify if they are part of an intact ring.  You then need to check that the circuit you want to connect onto has RCD shock protection for the new socket. I would always recommend any external wiring has a means of isolating both poles (live & neutral) at a suitable appropriately located switch. So in the event of a fault on the external wiring, then power can be isolated without turning off a whole circuit from the house

Doc H. 

 

[Blue Duck]

external wiring has a means of isolating both poles (live & neutral) at a suitable appropriately located switch. So in the event of a fault on the external wiring, then power can be isolated without turning off a whole circuit from the house

security should also be considered as to not allow unsavoury types to use power tools to gain entry to the property, have also had a customer with junkies charging their phones in her back garden whilst they await their purveyor of elicit substances.

 

[Evans Electric]

And an RCD is required , especially for the outside socket .

 

[Lurch]

And notification.

 

[Evans Electric]

Thing is ....notification , I presume ...does not apply to a houseowner  , who is free to do as he likes with his own electrics .

Carrying the job out for someone else & getting paid may be a different thing altogether .

Well thats the way I understand it Lurch ....in the same way as repairing your own car I suppose .

Now I've typed that out I'm thinking that it is NOT correct ...on the grounds of responsibility for the electrical installation falling upon them to be carried out by a competent person . 

Whats the truth of it ?      We know if you mess with gas its off to prison , possibly.

 

[Lurch]

Thing is ....notification , I presume ...does not apply to a houseowner  , who is free to do as he likes with his own electrics .

If it is notifiable work it should be notified. Doesn't matter who does it.

 

[steptoe]

Just like you, or me, being paid to do it, the responsibility to notify it is still down to the homeowner, 

 

[Kass]

security should also be considered as to not allow unsavoury types to use power tools to gain entry to the property, have also had a customer with junkies charging their phones in her back garden whilst they await their purveyor of elicit substances.

Fortunately for for me I don't live in an area where junkies gather, but if one should stumble upon my house they would need to climb two seven foot fences which are both protected with spikes and alarmed, then they would need to climb back over them because the CCTV system would have already alerted me by phone and the Police would be en route. Not really worth them doing that just to charge their phone. Not to mention the alarms that would be going off.

after asking my neighbor, he said I need to put a fused spur off the socket and then I can go from that to as many sockets outside that I want. It seems my kitchen socket goes directly upstairs which is the wire I could see coming from above, the one below is going into my lounge, and I would say that would be the end of the ringed circuit.

ive managed to put the armoured cable through the wall but I don't think I will bother messing with a fused spur off an existing socket. Too many wires for me. im going to get a sparky to do it and watch what he does, the outside sockets I can spur off the cable myself.

 

[Lurch]

Erm, right.

 

[Evans Electric]

 Acting as Devil's Advocate then..... has Part P of the Building Regs been ensconced into our legal system ,  so if a non professional ,  non competent person carries out electrical work  and doesn't notify it to his LBC , someone , somewhere , somehow will take some kind of legal action against him .  

Or is it the same as all those non scam registered sparks who do notifiable jobs every day but ignore the process that has been foisted upon the rest of us?

 

[Lurch]

Indirectly, for losses incurred through non-compliance maybe. Not sure about being directly illegal.

 

[Kass]

 Acting as Devil's Advocate then..... has Part P of the Building Regs been ensconced into our legal system ,  so if a non professional ,  non competent person carries out electrical work  and doesn't notify it to his LBC , someone , somewhere , somehow will take some kind of legal action against him .  

Or is it the same as all those non scam registered sparks who do notifiable jobs every day but ignore the process that has been foisted upon the rest of us?

Mr Evans West Midlands? Pretty sure you did my loft just after Xmas if I'm not mistaken? Haha small world if it's you. 

 

[Evans Electric]

Probably not Kass ,   what area are you ?   I avoid lofts like the plague TBH.  Could have been us but I don't recall any lofts recently.    Could have been  Evans Electrical , we are often confused .   Well I am often confused on a daily basis but thats another story  :innocent

 

[Kass]

Probably not Kass ,   what area are you ?   I avoid lofts like the plague TBH.  Could have been us but I don't recall any lofts recently.    Could have been  Evans Electrical , we are often confused .   Well I am often confused on a daily basis but thats another story  :innocent

BDHT work, spur in the loft above the boiler, if it's the same bloke. I live in Catshill. You regretted destroying my RCD surround I made when you came to check all the sockets and connections. If not you then fair enough lol.

 

[Evans Electric]

No  I deny all knowledge Kass .....   what is BDHT work ?     There are the odd one or two other Evans,s around  I believe .   I'm over in North Brum ....  my only connection with Catshill  is my accountant being based in Wildmoor Lane .  

 

[Kass]

No  I deny all knowledge Kass .....   what is BDHT work ?     There are the odd one or two other Evans,s around  I believe .   I'm over in North Brum ....  my only connection with Catshill  is my accountant being based in Wildmoor Lane .  

BDHT is the housing trust, I'm in the process of buying it so I don't think they are too bothered about any external electrics

 

[Evans Electric]

Must mean,  at a guess,   Bromsgrove District Housing Trust then  Watson ?  

 

[Kass]

Must mean,  at a guess,   Bromsgrove District Housing Trust then  Watson ?  

Yeah that's the one. You should see half their electric work, pretty sure I could do better and I can't even spur off a single socket. 

 

[apprentice87]

Part "P" is a building reg, So far as i know you can wire up what you like in your garden shed, all NOT notifiable. BUT BUT BUT, the exporting of the power TO the shed, DEFINITELY is...

It is PURELY the responsibility of the householder to comply with building regs, nothing to do with the installer, in the same way as it is the responsibility of the householder to comply with the town and country planning act, NOT the builder..

john...