Tester Repaired , Certificate Of Test Issued, Not Calibration.

[pewter]

Short Version:

I have had my multifunction function tester repaired under warranty for the 2nd time by the manufacturer.

The first time i had it returned with a certificate of calibration, this time they wanted to charge me £100 for that and returned it with a 'certificate of test'.

I think they should have given me a certificate of calibration to prove to me it now works correctly.

what do you think?

Not so short version:

- I dont think i should name the manufacturer ...... just yet

- I bought a leading manufacturer's  top end multifunction tester, (£1000 ish)

-  within 8-10 months the resistance in the leads could change up to 1 ohm by just moving the leads around.       leads should measure around .14 ohms,  just by moving the lead around it could go up to 1ohm.

- I tried new leads

- i returned it to manufacturer under warranty.

- sent them an email asking for it to come with a calibration certificate so they can prove to me it works.

-2-3 weeks later i got it back and was told they changed the PCB

-18 months later it started to do it again. At first just 0.01 ohm if the leads moved the terminals quite a bit, which soon turned into 1ohm if leads slightly moved.

-spoke to the manufacturers (it has a 3 year warranty), went through have you tried new leads chat. One guy let slip they have had a few problems like this with this model.

-Tester sent back to the manufacturer to be repaired.

-I received an email to let me know when it will get repaired and returned, i sent a reply asking that it comes with a calibration certificate to prove to me it is working correctly.

-Then i start correspondence with a very unfriendly, unhelpful jobsworth who tells me it will cost £89 + vat if i want a calibration certificate. But it would come with a certificate of test.

- During our many emails, the jobsworth gets mixed up and thinks i sent it back 18 months ago for an upgrade (the technical guys were aware of everything when i spoke to them a week earlier), and then tells me its due to there computer system upgrades.

- The Jobsworth was been very unfriendly, unhelpful, not answering my query directly.

- i was trying to get jobsworth to tell me what this certificate of test is, as one email i was told its what comes with the machine when new. Even though i got a calibration certificate when it was new.

-Jobsworth not replying to 2 emails.

-I then get email to say jobsworth is on holiday and if i want i can email Jobsworth2.

-I then ask again about this certificate of test, with all the correspondence from jobsworth1 and email it to jobsworth2, the technical dept and the sales team.

- when jobsworth2 gets back to me she tells me that jobsworth1 is right i am wrong, my tester is already packed on its way back to me and should arrive that day. (which is very unhelpful sending a package out when no one is home)

-I think they pulled a dirty trick not answering my query about the 'certificate of test', and returned it to me before i asked for anything.

I am very disappointed i spent top money on the tester, which has failed twice on the same problem. In total left me 5 weeks without a tester in 2 years. Inconvenience of waiting in for collection and waiting for delivery.

I think there latest rude treatment and wanting to charge me to have it calibrated is a **** take.

I think i have been fobbed off, and should have been given a calibration certificate.

next time i will buy a yellow tester

 

[m4tty]

Cue steps the megger hater .....

 

[NozSpark]

Heres my thinking....

You cannot carry out any repair on an instrument without testing its calibration, if you test its calibration then you need to pass these results onto the customer..

End of....

However as yet you don't know what the 'certificate' that they are returning with it says

 

[pewter]

They returned it with the certificate of test, which tells me there instrument tested it which is traceable. No break down of results.

I bought it from MM, who has always been excellent to deal with.

I thought I should return it to manufacturer as it's there problem not MM.

Perhaps I should have asked MM, he might have been able to do more for me.

 

[Evans Electric]

First rule with consumer problems , Pewter, is return to the seller .

I presume it pivots on the fact that you have not contracted to purchase anything from the manufacturer .  

We used to have a hard hitting consumer's rights programme on local radio here, and they used to slam the well known retailer of computers , TVs etc  for palming customers with complaints off to the makers.  

 

[steptoe]

OK,

so Im thinking its a Metrel?

am I right?

 

[pewter]

OK,

so Im thinking its a Metrel?

am I right?

No

 

[Apache]

You contract is with the seller not the manufacturer.

 

[batty]

So if a seller sends it back to manufacturer or insists it goes back to manufacturer they are doing something wrong?

 

[steptoe]

So if a seller sends it back to manufacturer or insists it goes back to manufacturer they are doing something wrong?

no, but its up to the seller to sort it out,

do you tell your customers to go deal direct with wylex/hager/crabtree or whoever,?

no, you sort it out, then play hell with the wholesaler, what he does after that doesnt bother you.

sorry Pewter, just heard a lot of horror stories about folks with sending stuff off to metrel, never been an issue for me personally.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Personally at the first failure I would have been asking for my money back or a new tester....

As I hadn't paid for a "repaired" tester to start with...

I wouldn't want a repaired tester unless I had it at a substantial discount...

But as said that aspect is via the seller who you have a contract with....

NOT the manufacturer...

 

[pewter]

Anything in the future i will do exactly that. Return it to the seller.

which i should have done the first time.

As it is 2 years old and the manufacturers warranty is 3 year, for the recent 2nd failure would only the manufacturer have dealt with it?  or would the seller?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Anything in the future i will do exactly that. Return it to the seller.

which i should have done the first time.

As it is 2 years old and the manufacturers warranty is 3 year, for the recent 2nd failure would only the manufacturer have dealt with it?  or would the seller?

Irrespective of any manufactures warranties unless you have been told initially that the goods are somehow damaged...

or not brand new...

then you still have the Sale of goods act 1979 and the Supply of goods and services act 1982 to fall back on.

Where the golden rule is that everything sold must be "fit for purpose" and "of Merchantable Quality".

Any reasonable person would expect a £1000+ electrical test meter to last more than two years under normal use and wear & tear.

 

[ProDave]

I would be asking what MODIFICATIONS they have made to an inadequate design that has failed twice now with the same fault.

In the absence of a credible alteration to the original design, I would have no confidence it was not going to fail again with the same fault once the guarantee period is up. So if they can't modify it to prevent the same fault coming back, I would want a refund and then buy a different tester.

 

[Steve3948]

It does sound like they think you are trying to get a 12 month calibration for free.

They probably get people trying this, I sent mine back for a free firmware upgrade and hoped they would provide a calibration certificate also, but what I received was a test sheet showing all the results within the parameters, this is as good as a certificate as its signed and dated, 

I must say I don't like the way the croc's clip onto the probes, seems to get loose over time to me, and for that reason I use either fixed croc's or fixed probe's. 

 

[pewter]

I think the first time i sent it back to the maker, my thinking was its quicker for me to send it to them rather then return it to MM who would then have to send it back to them. (it was such a long time ago i cant remember if i did speak to them about it) (MM and his team at ISS have always been excellent for me to deal with)

I also wanted the software upgrade and to be able to deal with them directly and ask for calibration certificate.

Looking back now, i think i should have asked for a new machine then.

My issue with the calibration certificate is that i beleive they should supply one to me to prove it works correctly.

When i had my last NICEIC assessment my assessor told me that as i keep good records of checking the tester (i check on cal card twice a month) i do not need to have it calibrated every year UNLESS the results start to change. Being as the results started to change due to a fault in the tester i see this as reason to need a calibration certificate. As the results only changed due to a fault in the machine i dont think i should pay for calibration, if the machine worked correctly it would not need calibration.

It would not  cost them anything to calibrate the machine. The inconvenience they have caused me having it repaired twice and asking me to pay for calibration is fantastic customer service.

The best bit,

So today i get round to having a tinker with it. I did use it briefly last week to do some insulation resistance tests which was ok.

I set it to 'continuity measurement' / 'low-resistance ohmmeter'

-leads measure 0.14

move the leads slightly and i get results going from 0.10- 0.53.

I took a video of this which shows me just moving the lead plugs between 90-180 degrees and the leads measure 0.22-0.54. I also captured the recent service sticker dated 7 days ago.

so if the machine is on a bench and the leads are used carefully so it does not move the plugs then the value does not change. If the leads are moved around so it causes the plug that goes into the tester to slightly move then the resistance measured in the leads changes.

I phoned the MM guys who said they would have to send it to the manufacturer anyway, so i might aswell do that myself but i can come back to them if i need to. He agreed it is not satisfactory and i should be asking for a new machine.

I phoned the manufacturer to let them know the situation, the guy on the phone agreed with me.  They will now collect it on Weds (no one available to wait in all day tomorrow) and when the boss has it on her desk then she will decide. I have told them i do not want that machine back. I told the guy a refund is preferable so i can get a yellow tester.

Now after playing with it some more, its change in resistance is down to 0.16 - 0.19 when measuring the leads. Though earlier and usually the leads measure 0.11 - 0.14.

I think the change of 0.03 when the leads are moved is unacceptable. what do you guys think?

If the manufacturer claims it is ok i have the video i can show them.

now another day someone has to wait for it to be collected, i really needed the tester this week also so the inconvenience is massive. I have an EICR to do on thur or Fri, which someone is relying on to sell there house 

 

[Steve3948]

Pewter - Why are you moving lead, I would plug leads in, nul out and test. I do it every time I swap leads around.

Are you putting probes or croc's together looking at reading then twisting the leads where they plug into the mschine ? I think the readings would change doing this. Will try mine later.

 

[pewter]

Pewter - Why are you moving lead, I would plug leads in, nul out and test. I do it every time I swap leads around.

Are you putting probes or croc's together looking at reading then twisting the leads where they plug into the mschine ? I think the readings would change doing this. Will try mine later.

as the lead moves in the air it can move the plug a few degrees round. which changes the resistance from  0.22-0.54  (on the video i made today)

Because the lead plug is at 90 degrees it easily moves. If the plug did not have the 90 degree bend then it would not happen.

so for example i null the leads, go up a step ladder or move around a few meters and as the lead in free air moves it moves the plug around a few degrees.

if the tester is not moved and kept stationary and the leads are not moved so far it moves the plug slightly it is ok.

before i sent it in the last time it could change from 0.14-1.04.  so i could go up a step ladder or walk a few meters to measure something and the resistance of the leads change. When it came back it did not do it untill i used the machine for doing a few simple tests and now any movement changes the resistance.

I would love to know how your tester behaves.

When it was new it did not do it.

GN3 requires digital low-resistance ohmmeters to have an accuracy of 0.01.   If walking a few meters changes that by just 0.03 i dont think the tester is meeting GN3.

 

[Sharpend]

Whoever thought that leads with a 90degree plug were a good idea in the first place was a good idea? Stick with the yellow machine as it isn't the fluke that people say it is, it's just accurate!

 

[steptoe]

have you tried good quality leads?