UPDATE TO THE CHANGES

[androiduk2002]

Hey All,

I have finally got some answers from City and Guilds, as to my own situation even tho I was told one thing it appears this is still not true.More to follow on that issue.

OLD COURSE:

City & Guilds 2330 part 2 and part 3

NVQ 2356

New course details

2357 QCF

Quote from email:

I have read over the 2357 FAQ and it appears that the course structure includes 50% theory and 50% practical, so both the 2330 tech cert and 2356 NVQ elements are covered in the same qualification essentially. This change will not have very much of an impact of candidates directly. You will continue to complete whichever course you have enrolled to do (the certification end dates for most of these qualifications are around the end of 2013) and if required; you may be enrolled onto the QCF replacement. One area of concern from candidates is that they will not be able to complete the work based elements, but this is covered in the 2357. So whether you are certificated on the 2356 NVQ or the 2357 QCF replacement; both contain the necessary work based modules to qualify you as an electrician.

The 2357 replacement is currently scheduled to go live in September 2010, but registration end dates for 2330 & 2356 are both 31/12/2010 with another 3 years thereafter to certificate.

I have had a lengthy conversation with City & Guilds because I cannot even register for part 3 until I have completed part 2 (this time next year) so going on this information I have just wasted the past 12 months. I have also discussed that some of the colleges appear to not be running 2330 Part 3 because of the new 2357 course.I am now awaiting a call back from them as to this issue.I will update further once i know more. I do have a pdf document that City & Guilds have emailed to me I will forward to anyone that PMs me with an email address.

http://www.cityandguilds.com/44902.html?sType=q&subject_or_code=Coming+soon:+Diploma+in+Electrotechnology+%28Working+title%29+%282357%29

 

[Badger]

i am soooo glad that i did mine 8 years ago on the old 2360 c&g

 

[androiduk2002]

I wish I had gone to college when I left school 24 years ago :-( things would of been alot easier going on a YTS as it then was.

 

[soulman]

hi mate,

i,m about to start my third final year 2330 lvl 3 in september, at the beginning of this year i was suspecting that i was not going to be able to finish my qualification because of the new qualification coming in 2357. After contacting c&g summit skills different colleges. i eventually stopped panicking.

I am 38 years old and would have wasted two years of my life, so i know how you must feel. this is what i have been told from a few different sources,

1. students who are on existing qualifications 2330 will be allowed to finish them. and funding will be available provided the college offers the 2357 when it becomes available.

2. colleges have an obligation to finish the qualification you started or to pass you over to a college who can finish the qualification.

3.something will obviously be sorted with the colleges to enrol you early if needed. or migrate you on to the 2357 for your 3rd year

4. the trouble is colleges have no more information than me or you.

5. nobody is even sure if the 2357 will go live in september as summit skills are leaving it a bit late. the new academic year starts in two months. so there may be another year of the 2330.

Hope this helps

cheers

 

[androiduk2002]

1. students who are on existing qualifications 2330 will be allowed to finish them. and funding will be available provided the college offers the 2357 when it becomes available.

This is what we told also at first

2. colleges have an obligation to finish the qualification you started or to pass you over to a college who can finish the qualification.

This differs from person to person from what I have been told, some say they have an obligation some say they dont.

3.something will obviously be sorted with the colleges to enrol you early if needed. or migrate you on to the 2357 for your 3rd year

Migrate to 2357 would mean a placement something many are struggling to find myself included.

4. the trouble is colleges have no more information than me or you.

Totally agree this is why I have contact Summitskills and City & Guilds directly.

5. nobody is even sure if the 2357 will go live in september as summit skills are leaving it a bit late. the new academic year starts in two months. so there may be another year of the 2330.

Going by what I have been told by my college and City & Guilds 2357 is live as of September, this is further confirmed by what others have been told.

Going by what the email said from City and Guilds registrations for 2330 close 31/12/2010 this is the big stumbling block from my point of view as I still have my second year of Part 2 to do so will not be able to register for Part 3 until this is completed (with luck this time next year) as some have already been told Part 3 is not being run next year if this is true now I hold no hope next year, whats just as frustrating is not being able to get answers no matter who you contact ! ! !.

headbangheadbangheadbangheadbang

:|

 

[soulman]

hi

you do not need a placement to do the level 3 2330

nvq 2356 is work based level 3 which will almost certainly be replaced by a few units of the 2357. and the am2 will become compulsary. there are many electricians who have the technical cert 2330 lv 2 and lv 3 but not the nvq 2356 as you dont need it unless you want to get graded by the jib.

I have no doubt that something will be sorted out for student registered on existing qualifications. there would be hell to pay up and down the country if colleges dropped students. (its not very likely to happen)

Contact summit skills not c&g.

cheers patrick

p.s level 3 should be running in september the confusion was lack of funding but this now been agreed.

 

[Megaohm7]

hiyou do not need a placement to do the level 3 2330

nvq 2356 is work based level 3 which will almost certainly be replaced by a few units of the 2357. and the am2 will become compulsary. there are many electricians who have the technical cert 2330 lv 2 and lv 3 but not the nvq 2356 as you dont need it unless you want to get graded by the jib.

I have no doubt that something will be sorted out for student registered on existing qualifications. there would be hell to pay up and down the country if colleges dropped students. (its not very likely to happen)

Contact summit skills not c&g.

cheers patrick

p.s level 3 should be running in september the confusion was lack of funding but this now been agreed.

Just spoken to a couple of lads who I done my 2330 lvl's 2and 3 with and they have heard about these changes and We are all glad that all that is behind us now but do feel for the students who are halfway through theirs . I hope things become clearer for the students and that they can finish off the course like they deserve to as I know the hard work involved to gain Your qualification .

 

[androiduk2002]

hiyou do not need a placement to do the level 3 2330

nvq 2356 is work based level 3 which will almost certainly be replaced by a few units of the 2357. and the am2 will become compulsary. there are many electricians who have the technical cert 2330 lv 2 and lv 3 but not the nvq 2356 as you dont need it unless you want to get graded by the jib.

I have no doubt that something will be sorted out for student registered on existing qualifications. there would be hell to pay up and down the country if colleges dropped students. (its not very likely to happen)

Contact summit skills not c&g.

cheers patrick

p.s level 3 should be running in september the confusion was lack of funding but this now been agreed.

You are correct Patrick for 2330 level 3 you do not need a placement , but for 2357 QCF you DO need a placement so to be migrated onto 2357 if you can not do your 2330 Part 3 as the course in no longer run , would this require you to be in a placement, this is the big stumbling block.

As many on here will tell you there are very few if any trainee jobs around especailly for someone of our age, almost weekly people are advertising on here, themselves on a free basis just to get the experience that the colleges do not teach you.

I have contacted Summitskills but again they have not as of yet been able to help/advice me, dispite several calls and emails to them.

I hope something will be sorted out quickly this is very poor from all concerned IMHO.

Andy

 

[androiduk2002]

I have finally received a call back from Summitskills.

As it stands at present I will not be able to do 2330 Level 3 , but i should be migrated on to 2357 but I will NOT be able to complete 2357 unless between now and next year I am able to secure a position with a contractor that does industrial/comercial/residental, because 2357 requires them to see real life installation work.

So at present I am feeling like i have been shafted well and truly. I cannot complete 2330 part 3 and I cannot complete 2357 unless.

This could all change as City and Guilds STILL have not finalised all these details.

I am told the reasons for the changes is due to to many people doing 2330 part2 and 3 then setting up their own company as a compitent sparkie without having the necessary NVQ , in the eyes of Summit you need the NVQ to be compitent.

Feel free to flame away as to be honest I dont give a flying,

 

[pinky]

im in the exact same position as you bro and to be honest bad day explode

im well and truly gutted but understand it

I am told the reasons for the changes is due to to many people doing 2330 part2 and 3 then setting up their own company as a compitent sparkie without having the necessary NVQ , in the eyes of Summit you need the NVQ to be compitent.

i do see there point ive seen so many questions from those who have 'apparently' finished there level 3 and gone on there own are asking quite frankly ridiculously simple questions.

i do believe that without experience that paper quals are lacking in credence.

but i think they are somewhat misguided does this mean they are killing off the DI courses cos as far as i can see this is a far greater danger than those who have tried to follow the proper direction into the trade.

i NEVER intended along with probarbly many many others to go on my own or call myself 'fully qualified' without a few years under others of greater abilitys

i too feel royally shafted for trying to do it the right way i should have just done a 5 day course stuck a nice big scam 'eherm' scheme sticker on me van stuk me spurs on and got them wagons rolling headbangheadbangheadbangheadbangbad day explode

ah well rant over as you say it may changerayray

:C brian says keep your chin up he'll have a word

 

[soulman]

I have spoken to three colleges regarding your problem in the north east they have all told me basically the same thing. if you had to be migrated onto the 2357 for your third year which they doubt will happen!!!(they all said the chances are you will finish the 2330, as it would be more of headache for summit skills to create a migration path onto the 2357 which is a level 3 only qualification) but if you had to migrate then you would complete your 3rd year technical bits at college then do the work based parts when you had work (self employed or employed) then your 2357 would be completed. but you would obtain no cert until you had complete the work based parts which is basically nvq2356.

Also there will be certain units of the 2357 that can be taken with people who already have 2330 lvl2 & lvl3 or similar qualifications but not the nvq 2356. they will need these units for jib grading. the am2 will also be compulsary to complete.

Like i said in an earlier post, there is no point worrying as i did, there are so many student in the same boat there would be outrage if they did not let existing students complete their courses.

 

[pinky]

I have spoken to three colleges regarding your problem in the north east they have all told me basically the same thing. if you had to be migrated onto the 2357 for your third year which they doubt will happen!!!(they all said the chances are you will finish the 2330, as it would be more of headache for summit skills to create a migration path onto the 2357 which is a level 3 only qualification) but if you had to migrate then you would complete your 3rd year technical bits at college then do the work based parts when you had work (self employed or employed) then your 2357 would be completed. but you would obtain no cert until you had complete the work based parts which is basically nvq2356.Also there will be certain units of the 2357 that can be taken with people who already have 2330 lvl2 & lvl3 or similar qualifications but not the nvq 2356. they will need these units for jib grading. the am2 will also be compulsary to complete.

Like i said in an earlier post, there is no point worrying as i did, there are so many student in the same boat there would be outrage if they did not let existing students complete their courses.

thinking the same way myself bud really cant see why or how they would simply say no thats it no more.

i have got a post elsewhere on here saying pretty much the same as you thought it was in here but think it was another thread.

as you said migration would seem to be a huge headache for em much simpler to just stop new enrollments onto the 2330 and let those who have started finish. and consider new enrolments 2357 . simples

migration may be no bad thing though i was gonna do the nvq anyway might work out better in the end who knows.

right hand dont know what the left is doing at the mo the colleges are still lobbying on our behalf so all we can do is keep at it and see what happens or go and do a plastering course:innocent

pekkers up boys

 

[androiduk2002]

My situation is not helped by the college falling apart at the present out of 5 electrical lecturers 3 have gone to pastures new 1 is going part time that leaves 1 lecturer , even the department head has gone to pastures new.

This is why I have tried to get answers from City & Guilds and Summit directly.

All the information I have been given is from either of them, as Summit sets out the contents of the course and City & Guilds says how the course will work , youd expect one of them to be able to give the correct information.

Oh well time will tell, thats if I even go back for the second year of part 2 , thats how fed up I am feeling at present with the whole situation.

 

[wozz]

i feel for the people that feel you have wasted two years of your life, in reality i dont feel u have.

I believe this is the industry desperately trying to sort its self out. Tieing the NVQ in with the C&G ensures at the end you have at least demonstrated some skills that will be able to use to get a job with.

At present this is not the case, and it doesnt help anyone. Someone thats intelligent and good at reading books and passing exams can become a 'electrician'. Your NVQ is what sets you and your three years of training apart from the people that have trained for two weeks and call themselves the same as you.

DISCLAIMER: To be clear im not knocking anyone or how they have trained. And this is from a 2360 point of view i realize the 2330 is slightly more practical based but what you can do in a classroom is extremely limited.

 

[soulman]

Andy i think you need to find another college mate. Some colleges are noted for being crap, others will bend over backwards for the students. By the looks of your college you may not even get to do your second year. look around there is plenty of time before september and ask them about the third year. i have been told by my college that everybody who has started the 2330 will be able to complete that course.

 

[soulman]

Update to the new qualification 2357. will not go live this september

http://www.electricalqualifications.co.uk/

 

[pinky]

Update to the new qualification 2357. will not go live this septemberhttp://www.electricalqualifications.co.uk/

a good thing i would say for those of us in limbo adds a bit of ammo for the lobbying

not so good for some of the lecturers that may have lost their jobs due to the restructuring involved in anticipation from the quite frankly incompetent and ill thought out management of the whole situation

once again a (imho) good idea utterly incompetently implemented headbang

 

[Dr Equipment]

i feel for the people that feel you have wasted two years of your life, in reality i dont feel u have.I believe this is the industry desperately trying to sort its self out. Tieing the NVQ in with the C&G ensures at the end you have at least demonstrated some skills that will be able to use to get a job with.

At present this is not the case, and it doesnt help anyone. Someone thats intelligent and good at reading books and passing exams can become a 'electrician'. Your NVQ is what sets you and your three years of training apart from the people that have trained for two weeks and call themselves the same as you.

DISCLAIMER: To be clear im not knocking anyone or how they have trained. And this is from a 2360 point of view i realize the 2330 is slightly more practical based but what you can do in a classroom is extremely limited.

I think you are spot on. Here, the practical on-the-job experience is as important as the theory to get your licence in the end and I honestly believe that one should not be done without the other anyway, there's just too much potential for catastrophe in this trade bad day explode

Will have to wait and see how this pans out now, I'm guessing the NVQ2356 will be absorbed into the 2357 next year which is the qual I am after, it's also unfortunate that some may struggle with these changes but this is a positive move for the trade in your neck of the woods.