Could you rewire a domestic without RCD protection

[Canoeboy 3,144]

I think you can vote ( I did ) but you have to be quiet

[springcrocus 149]

I'm not sure how this would be viewed but, Part 2 - definitions states that maintenance is a "Combination of..blah, blah, blah...or restore it to, a state in which it can perform a required function"

Based on this, if you replace all the life-expired wiring and fittings with new, you are returning the installation to its original condition. There would be no requirement to UPGRADE the installation, so no requirement for RCD's.

Fire away, guys.

[spinlondon 39]

Then you would sign a certificate stating that your work complied with......

[SPECIAL LOCATION 2,310]

Then you would sign a certificate stating that your work complied with......

You probably would........

[ianmacd 111]

And you would notify and work on special installations or in special locations or kitchens how?

[binky 1,038]

Low voltage lighting such as downlighters means the 240V bit is outside of the room - no RCD, though i would also consider Class II fitings as not needing RCD either ( I am now considering whether that last bit is correct) becuse no one is going to jump out of the shower with a screwdiver and decide to change the light bulb

[spinlondon 39]

I assume you are refering to extra low voltage lighting.

This will still require RCD protection, not on the ELV part, but on the 230V feed.

[ianmacd 111]

Indeed and isnt that reg badly worded such that it suggests the entire circuit should be protected too and not just the bit in the room?

[spinlondon 39]

That is to prevent earth faults from outside the room being imported into the room, thereby bypassing the RCD protection

[ianmacd 111]

So at the moment we are needing a whole heap of RCD'ing?

[NozSpark 1,043]

So at the moment we are needing a whole heap of RCD'ing?

I wouldn't say so,,,, (I've changed my mind)

but it would take a whole heap of extra work to avoid;)

[spinlondon 39]

To be honest, this is rather a pointless discussion, as no one is prepared to put forth a scenario where they believe RCD protection can be omitted, whilst still complying with BS7671.

[Manator 1,459]

To be honest, this is rather a pointless discussion, as no one is prepared to put forth a scenario where they believe RCD protection can be omitted, whilst still complying with BS7671.

With so many people getting hung up on the need or requirement to upgrade to additional protection via 30mA RCD's, I thought it was a very good excersise for people to look at the alternatives. If you think this is pointless then do not take part in the discussion, thats your right. I doubt anyone would do a rewire ommiting all RCD additional protection, but that is not why I decided to run this poll, all I will say is that it is possible, even in special locations if designed that way. The regulations even allow it.

[ianmacd 111]

Again no proof. This thread has gone nowhere. Either put up or shut up.

[Manator 1,459]

Again no proof. This thread has gone nowhere. Either put up or shut up.

Its a 7 day multi choice poll. The proof should you require it is in the regulations.

At the end of the 7 day poll I will tell those who are unaware how it can be done, then I will have "put up" so that I can "shut up" .

[M107 891]

Hang in there Manator.

I for one am enjoying the problem......every time I think I'm getting somewhere with.............. Doh.

[Canoeboy 3,144]

Tick Tock

[Manator 1,459]

Indeed. I will have to read the regulations again, last time I did that was in 2003. I have just pulled my amec handbook out of storage, will read that before I post next.

[binky 1,038]

I assume you are refering to extra low voltage lighting.

This will still require RCD protection, not on the ELV part, but on the 230V feed.

If the 240V is outside the room why doeas it need RCD??? Thats like putting a weatherproof socket inside the house to mow the lawn

[ianmacd 111]

Ask the IEE but them are the regs.

[SPECIAL LOCATION 2,310]

Would there be some subtle difference if your question had been..

"Can a new build domestic house be wired without rcd protection?"

rather than..

"Can a domestic house be rewired without rcd protection?"

:coffee

[Manator 1,459]

Would there be some subtle difference if your question had been..

"Can a new build domestic house be wired without rcd protection?"

rather than..

"Can a domestic house be rewired without rcd protection?"

:coffee

Yes I suppose there would be, the original question is to be honest a little ambiguous, one answer has already been given on how it could be rewired without RCD, it is still possible on a new build but unlikely ever to be designed or wired that way.

I have not looked up the regs as yet. The excersise was to try and show that it could be done, not that it should be done.

[ianmacd 111]

Yes I suppose there would be, the original question is to be honest a little ambiguous, one answer has already been given on how it could be rewired without RCD, it is still possible on a new build but unlikely ever to be designed or wired that way.

I have not looked up the regs as yet. The excersise was to try and show that it could be done, not that it should be done.

If you havent looked up the regs how do you know it cam be? And what was the answer already given?

[SPECIAL LOCATION 2,310]

Can I skim a few more stones across the pond of electrikdom......

Could we not also possibly be taking into account 114.1...

(hears the rustling of pages from those what don't know their regs!)

and the initial question "Could you rewire a domestic without RCD protection"

pondering the differences of legalities re domestic -vs- commercial?

I think some of Mr Crocuses maintenance requirement (post #52) could even be helpful,

like-4-like & all that gives a lot of get-out-of jail free cards..

Me thinks.\

[spinlondon 39]

Cables concealed in walls can be protected by a number of methods that do not require the use of RCDs.

FELV or reduced low voltage would obviate the requirement to use an RCD to protect socket-outlets.

That would just leave circuits of special locations requiring RCD protection.

Could lighting be provided for a special location through a window in a ceiling or wall, and would that lighting then not be considered to be part of a circuit of a special location?