Becoming Part P Registered And Employing Others

Hi all

I have over ten years experience in all areas of electrical trade, although mainly commercial. At the moment im weighing up the possibilities of trying to make a go of my own business. Although most experience in commercial. The most feasible option financially and practically at the moment for me seems to be to register with a self cert scheme. Niciec DI seems to be most recognised so pretty set on going with these. I will be registering my business with this scheme. Although no guarantees of success with anything. I think it's best to plan properly at this stage and am concerned how if I am getting calls for work which I cannot attend because busy or distance constraints how I can try to keep these happy and fulfill these offers without creating an unreliable image to business. My query is really if I am NIC DI and I am able to send someone else to a notifiable job for me do they need to also be part of a DI scheme. Who is responsible for signing what and how heavily involved do I need to be involved to cert this through my company scheme. I realise this is a lengthy post but do wonder how alot of other businesses manage this as seems alot of them do it very differently ie pimlico plumbers require all engineers to be NIC DI but then there are alot of firms like housing association sparks that just require electricians to be 2391 and send them all over place doing their notifiable work. Just curious will be very very grateful if someone can help me get my head around this bloody DI scheme

will you directly employ others,?

or will they be sub-contractors?

that is where the difference lies.

Thanks Steptoe. I really don't know at this stage. Just trying to figure out a starring place for some sort of plan and what the considerations/practicalities of it would be. Would be lovely to think could generate enough work to directly employ but could be a while or indeed a very long one. The problem seems to be how do you generate work with keeping existing customers happy and taking and not refusing new work because you can't get people to them or atleast you can't cert their work?

if you dont employ directly then they must be registered in their own right,

if you employ directly then you can use the (imho) stupid QS system.

remember also the insurance implications of using subbies,

and if you employ directly there are even higher premiums to pay.

how big and how fast do you expect to grow?

remember, your reputation relies on the subbies to do a good job.

Perhaps ask NIC?

pewter said:

Perhaps ask NIC?

Click to expand...

why?

they just make up their own rules regardless of the regulations, rules, law, or EAWR and simply charge you for being a mug and stupid enough to join them.

steptoe said:

why?

they just make up their own rules regardless of the regulations, rules, law, or EAWR and simply charge you for being a mug and stupid enough to join them.

Click to expand...

Because he wants to join NIC, wants to know what the rules on there membership is and how to use it.

I thought the best people to ask on how you can use there membership scheme, might be the people who make the rules to the membership scheme they want to join and be a part of. :C

Sparky79 said:

Hi all

I have over ten years experience in all areas of electrical trade, although mainly commercial. At the moment im weighing up the possibilities of trying to make a go of my own business. Although most experience in commercial. The most feasible option financially and practically at the moment for me seems to be to register with a self cert scheme. Niciec DI seems to be most recognised so pretty set on going with these. I will be registering my business with this scheme. Although no guarantees of success with anything. I think it's best to plan properly at this stage and am concerned how if I am getting calls for work which I cannot attend because busy or distance constraints how I can try to keep these happy and fulfill these offers without creating an unreliable image to business. My query is really if I am NIC DI and I am able to send someone else to a notifiable job for me do they need to also be part of a DI scheme. Who is responsible for signing what and how heavily involved do I need to be involved to cert this through my company scheme. I realise this is a lengthy post but do wonder how alot of other businesses manage this as seems alot of them do it very differently ie pimlico plumbers require all engineers to be NIC DI but then there are alot of firms like housing association sparks that just require electricians to be 2391 and send them all over place doing their notifiable work. Just curious will be very very grateful if someone can help me get my head around this bloody DI scheme

Click to expand...

i wonder how that works,  are all there electricians subbies.

Pimlico? There a franchise so essentialy self employed but tied to the company. They are quite strict about who they let in too.

Also charge a sh1tload £85/hr

Just... seeking new employment

From here:-

http://www.niceic.com/Join-Us/Schemes-Overview/Rules-for-DIS-Part-P

Download rules for registration...

http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File6222.pdf

Then in the rules..

Bullet point 1.3 Personnel required for registration:

Bullet point 1.6 Subcontracting:

Or as Pewter says...

Give them a call to find it if what you are proposing is acceptable for their rules?

opcorn

Thanks everyone for posts

Because he wants to join NIC, wants to know what the rules on there membership is and how to use it.

I thought the best people to ask on how you can use there membership scheme, might be the people who make the rules to the membership scheme they want to join and be a part of.

Click to expand...

I have actually phoned them regarding this but to be honest was a young girl who really didnt seem to be that knowledgable herself and it didnt help that noise from rest of the call answer staff in background made it almost impossible to hear or understand anything she said. Not a great first impression. As for other people suggesting that joining NIC/other cert schemes is bad move I wish i could see another alternative but reality seems to be that NIC have such a hold on domestic installer market that is the only real option for anyone in my situation that will probably be doing mainly domestic work?

if you dont employ directly then they must be registered in their own right,

if you employ directly then you can use the (imho) stupid QS system.

remember also the insurance implications of using subbies,

and if you employ directly there are even higher premiums to pay.

how big and how fast do you expect to grow?

remember, your reputation relies on the subbies to do a good job.

Click to expand...

Thanks again Steptoe. I have since looked abit more into QS system and read a few stories where QS prosecuted for bad/unsafe workmanship of others. This is one of my main concerns if i did go down this route with directly employing. The realities of being able to check all work and believe in everyones integrity or honesty and also skills would be a constant concern. I suppose all you could do in this situation is make sure you only employ fully qualified experienced testers and keep stressing need for full complete testing certs and not try to reward as best as possible for cutting corners with these. As regards subbie /pimlico plumbers route

Pimlico? There a franchise so essentialy self employed but tied to the company. They are quite strict about who they let in too.
Also charge a sh1tload £85/hr

Click to expand...

Just... seeking new employment

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This would seem like a quite difficult proposition to manage aswell for a new business that is still trying to create a brand or customer base. Ontop of the biggest challenge in finding good well presentable subbies that have part p. The ever changing rules on false self employment need to be fully understood and applied. How Pimlico get round this i still dont fully understand. Believe that if i going to create anything with any real chance of sustaning itself need to build brand. Means requiring all sparks wear company gear, Van logos the rest (where the line between subbie and employed is getting all the more vague). Still lots to ponder but does seems like QS system does seem to be most realistic proposition learn term. Although a massive pain in the arse. By the way again would like to stress i am in no way making it sound like generating enough work even for myself is going to be plain sailing just think the very real considerations of having to employ others even on rare occasions does need to be thought about.

Well my quotes completely didnt work there : ) sorry if its a difficult read

Sparky79 said:

Hi all

I have over ten years experience in all areas of electrical trade, although mainly commercial. At the moment im weighing up the possibilities of trying to make a go of my own business. Although most experience in commercial. The most feasible option financially and practically at the moment for me seems to be to register with a self cert scheme. Niciec DI seems to be most recognised so pretty set on going with these. I will be registering my business with this scheme. Although no guarantees of success with anything. I think it's best to plan properly at this stage and am concerned how if I am getting calls for work which I cannot attend because busy or distance constraints how I can try to keep these happy and fulfill these offers without creating an unreliable image to business. My query is really if I am NIC DI and I am able to send someone else to a notifiable job for me do they need to also be part of a DI scheme. Who is responsible for signing what and how heavily involved do I need to be involved to cert this through my company scheme. I realise this is a lengthy post but do wonder how alot of other businesses manage this as seems alot of them do it very differently ie pimlico plumbers require all engineers to be NIC DI but then there are alot of firms like housing association sparks that just require electricians to be 2391 and send them all over place doing their notifiable work. Just curious will be very very grateful if someone can help me get my head around this bloody DI scheme

Click to expand...

I find picking the right jobs for me/my company is whats best for me.

For example, i recently did a quick emergency job for a builder on an extension he was doing. He dangled the carrot and offered all the sparky work on the extension. I asked for plans and specification so i can price. 2 weeks later he catches up with me and tells me its ready for next week, i explain i am busy for 2-3 weeks, and i again asked for plans & spec to price. Builder said 'just want it done cheap' , i then explain i dont do cheap work so he is best getting a team of lash ups to do it.

I only take on jobs suitable for me.

Do you have a ton of work ready to keep a team of people busy from the start?  If not why not get going alone/with a mate and expand if it becomes profitable to do so.

get registered first off - means you  a use logos and stuff on paperwok / vans etc etc, also means you can join things like Trading Standards ' buy with confidence' scheme and which? 'trusted trader' scheme. Initially whilst small and growing if you are using some subbies,chances are you will also be on the job working with them, so maintaining standards should not be an issue. The problems come further down the line when you have to be desk bound to keep up with running your own business. Hopefully be then you will have found a decent set of guys you can rely on and trust. My advice is to avoid rapid expansion - like the economy it usually is followed by rapid decline.

Sparky79 said:

Thanks everyone for posts

Well my quotes completely didnt work there : ) sorry if its a difficult read

Click to expand...

Quote boxes added to your earlier post to make it an easier read.

Doc H.