2 lights in kitchen and 1 switch. Would like separate switches.

Good morning all

I'm new to the forum - not an electrician but big on DIY and stuff.   My kitchen has 2 lights - one at the kitchen end and one over the dining area.  They both operate from one switch.  I would like each light on it's own switch.  At this point I would upload photos of the wiring but am unable to at the moment (newby).

The light over the dining area has a simple pendant fitting.  There are 2 cables from the ceiling. In the "live" terminal of the fitting is the pre-wired live (brown) and live (red) from one ceiling cable.   There is nothing in the loop terminals. In the final terminal is the neutral (blue) from the  fitting and  2 black wires from the ceiling cables.  (All earths are all connected to the earth terminal).    

The switch has 2 cables into it - there is 1 red cable to L1 and a black to the Com terminal.

I have thought about this so much I can't think straight now - all I would like is a seperate switch - how difficult can it be ? 

I would appreciate any help from the forum - and yes I am well aware of how dangerous electricity is - I shock people at work so it is always switched off and fuses removed from CU before I do anything - even taking a picture.

Many thanks in advance.

Describe the wiring inside the switch a bit better please. do you realy mean 2 CABLES or one 2 core cable?

The hardest part is going to be running an additional cable from the switch to oen of the lights.

Do you want the two switched together i.e a 2 gang switch (probably easiest option) or do you want a switch at each end of the room?

Can you please describe the connections at the kitchen light? 

Hi guys and thanks

ProDave - definitely 2 cables but looks like 1.5mm.  

Live and unsheathed earth from one cable.  The live goes to the L1 and the earth is with another earth in one sheath to the earth terminal.   The other cable has live, earth and neutral.  The neutral goes to the COM terminal and the earth is just hanging there - not connected to anything.

 I would like 2 switches - next to each other is fine - one a normal switch for the kitchen area and a dimmer (which is there already) for the dining side.  Running a cable is no problem - the bedroom and bathroom floor are up already  

Sharpend - thanks you too.  It would be so much easier if I could just put a pic up but there is just one cable - twin and earth from the ceiling and connected to the light fitting which on the kitchen side is a bar with 4 spotlights on.

Thanks a lot guys x

I am still not understanding that. You nered to be explicit.

I am reading that as cable 1, the red core goes to the switch L1 and the earth goes to an earth termoinal. I don't know if there is a black core to this cable and if it connects anywhere?

Cable 2, the black core (let's not call it a neutral, it almost certainly is not) goes to the switch common.  The bare earth wire they dodn't bother to connect and I don't know if this cable has a red core and if it connects anywhere or not.

Yes it's a pain not being able to post pictures until you have made 10 posts, it's an anto spam measure but in cases like this it is just a nuisance.  You could try sending an email to one of the moderators and see if they will enable your posting rights.

The opinion I am forming, from the information I have read is this is not "loop at light" nor is is "loop at switch" So it is probably all wired to a big lighting junction box somewhere under a floorboard somewhere.  What's the age of the house and more importantly when was it last rewired? and in your work on the house have you ever seen such a large probably 6 inch square junction box somewhere near the middle of the house with a lot of cables going into it?

I suspect that what we have here is a couple of original loop pendants have been replaced with a couple of decorative/modern lights and the wiring has been pushed into the ceiling void with only extended legs to the lights/switch? If the floors are up could you please have a look from above to see if there are any further connections/cables locally to the light positions. 

IMHO the first thing needed here is a suitable meter that can read voltage to identify exactly where the permanent live is...

and a suitable continuity tester to verify exactly which wires appear where at the light fittings. 

Important note:-  A black wire connected to any light switch is NOT a neutral conductor....

if it was the fuse would blow every time you operate the switch!

more info needed IMHO.... opcorn

However what you should understand is the basic concept of wiring a light..

1/ Permanent live from the supply (fuse box) to one side of a switch

2/ Switched live from the other side of the switch to one side of the load (light)

3/ Neutral from the other side of the load (light) to the supply (fuse box)

Your task is to identify where the 'No.2 bit' "switched live",  currently goes to.. i.e. which light fitting.. 

Then once you know that...

you have to work out how to get another switched live from the switch to the other light position..

(you already have neutrals at the lights and permanent live at the switch)

Guinness

^^^^^^^^^^^^

and dont be tempted to use the CPC .( earth wire) with a bit of sleeve on it!

just warning

It may be cheaper to use wireless switches,

In fact, it would be cheaper,. 

You need to reconfigure the switch live to the 2nd light to be a permanent live tho, but shouldn't be too difficult, for even a DIYer, do you have ANY sort of electrical test equipment,?  

Hi all

Will answer when I get to the hotel - working away till Friday evening.  Will reply to you all as soon as I can and hopefully  may get my post numbers up and then out some photos up.

Many thanks all of you for your help x

Hi ProDave

The house was built in about 1650 but I’ve only lived here for about 20 years

As far as I recall it was about 14 year ago when I had the kitchen done and as I seem to recall the 2 lights were on 2 separate switches next to each other.

There are two cables to the switch.  I cable has a red (live) to the L1 port and an unsheathed wire (? Earth) which is in a green/yellow sheath with an unsheathe wire from the other cable.  These are both connected to the earth terminal.

The second cable has 3 wires – the unsheathed which is connected to the earth terminal with the other earth.  There is a black (which I realise must be the switched live) connected to the Com terminal and a red which is not connected to anything at all – just cut off and left hanging (so to speak).

I do have part of the flooring up upstairs but haven’t seen a large junction box – however, Murphy’s law being what it is, it is probably under the flooring I haven’t been able to take up.

I am answering everyone individually – then my post count will go up   I hope 

Morning Sharpend

I only have part of the flooring up – kinda getting used to having to levitate when upstairs

From what I can see (which tbh isn’t much) – I can’t see that there are any cables or connections.  I will endeavour to remove more flooring but the will to live is rapidly leaving.  Will see what I can discover this weekend.

Thank you again

If it previously had two indivisual switches then it is probably possible to reconfigure it again with the cables that are there.

Keep the answers coming and then you can post the pictures and it should all make a lot more sense.

Morning Special Location

It would be so much easier if I could post photos - however my post count is rapidly rising so hopefully I will be able to shortly.  

Thank you for your input.

Hi Kerching

I am (quite rightly) very cautious with electricity and must have some form of OCD as it is not enough for me to know how to do something - I need to know why and how it works.   I do thank you for your help though.

Morning Steptoe

Had a look at wireless switches but ended up very confused.  Will do some more research when I have more time and see if they will work.

Many thanks

Thanks ProDave

As I say, I vaguely recall that it was 2 switches.  |However I got an electrician in and he had a look and said that it couldn't be done with the existing cables.  I'll keep posting and then put some photos up.  This is now keeping me awake at nights - along with the lack of flooring lol

Thanks again 

What we need from the pictures is a good photo of what's at the switch and both light fittings.  Try to show the whole cables, i.e right back to where the cores enter the cable sheath, not just a bunch of wires appearing through a hole with no idea which cable they come from.

Will do - will take pictures today and then I'm raring to go

Cheers

Any pictures yet @sheryl?  

Hi Steptoe

Just had some more floor up = what a bloody nightmare - looks like spaghetti junction !!!

Have taken some photos so am just going to upload them and add any notes if I can.

Thank you