Could you rewire a domestic without RCD protection

[binky]

I assume you are refering to extra low voltage lighting.This will still require RCD protection, not on the ELV part, but on the 230V feed.

If the 240V is outside the room why doeas it need RCD??? Thats like putting a weatherproof socket inside the house to mow the lawn

 

[ianmacd]

Ask the IEE but them are the regs.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Would there be some subtle difference if your question had been..

"Can a new build domestic house be wired without rcd protection?"

rather than..

"Can a domestic house be rewired without rcd protection?"

:Salute :coffee

 

[Manator]

Would there be some subtle difference if your question had been.."Can a new build domestic house be wired without rcd protection?"

rather than..

"Can a domestic house be rewired without rcd protection?"

:Salute :coffee

Yes I suppose there would be, the original question is to be honest a little ambiguous, one answer has already been given on how it could be rewired without RCD, it is still possible on a new build but unlikely ever to be designed or wired that way.

I have not looked up the regs as yet. The excersise was to try and show that it could be done, not that it should be done.

 

[ianmacd]

Yes I suppose there would be, the original question is to be honest a little ambiguous, one answer has already been given on how it could be rewired without RCD, it is still possible on a new build but unlikely ever to be designed or wired that way.I have not looked up the regs as yet. The excersise was to try and show that it could be done, not that it should be done.

If you havent looked up the regs how do you know it cam be? And what was the answer already given?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Can I skim a few more stones across the pond of electrikdom......

Could we not also possibly be taking into account 114.1...

(hears the rustling of pages from those what don't know their regs!)

and the initial question "Could you rewire a domestic without RCD protection"

pondering the differences of legalities re domestic -vs- commercial?

:C

I think some of Mr Crocuses maintenance requirement (post #52) could even be helpful,

like-4-like & all that gives a lot of get-out-of jail free cards..

Me thinks. ; \

 

[spinlondon]

Cables concealed in walls can be protected by a number of methods that do not require the use of RCDs.

FELV or reduced low voltage would obviate the requirement to use an RCD to protect socket-outlets.

That would just leave circuits of special locations requiring RCD protection.

Could lighting be provided for a special location through a window in a ceiling or wall, and would that lighting then not be considered to be part of a circuit of a special location?

 

[Sidewinder]

Does no one on here understand a rhetorical question...

 

[Andy™]

but isnt a goldfish's memory only 6 seconds, not 1 hour?

 

[spinlondon]

Does no one on here understand a rhetorical question...

This is applicable to this thread because......

 

[Manator]

I think rhetorical in this instance means just that, I am not for one minute suggesting that any domestic should be designed to exclude the need for RCD protection, however if required it could be done. By RCD protection I mean the actual circuits and not individual outlets. As I said in the poll statement this could be a learning excersise for all of us, I do not pretend to know all the regs off by heart, but I do know that the regulations one way or another allow you to design any circuit without the "statutory" constraints. Providing your peers will, if needed, agree.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:53 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:50 ----------

Sorry guys it would appear that I had inadvertantly closed the thread, not my intention. Its open now and my post will be posted sunday after the poll is closed

 

[Andy™]

Sorry guys it would appear that I had inadvertantly closed the thread

i think Admin needs to arrange more training courses for you mods...

 

[springcrocus]

Congratulations, Manator, in initiating a thread that has produced some worthwhile discussion. Most of the longer threads on the forum tend towards banality and triviality as time goes on. This one has got us all thinking, without too much sidetracking, and has produced more than the normal amount of sensible discussion.

I'm happy to :coat if the majority disagree.

 

[Manator]

Whilst privvy to any discussion, my rights and priviledge as a moderator are foregone, therefore within reason you can all react as you would to any other poster, as long as its of course friendly in nature. I do think this has been a very good excersise, its not one that any decent electrician would put in place, but it did and does get us all thinking outside the box.

I am glad I posed the question, it has allowed me to think, and lets be fair who thinks when rewireing a house?

 

[Manator]

MeDont do houses

One of those reasons I excluded you I suppose

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was made at 22:23 ----------

Ok the poll is closed and the votes are in and the winners are? Well let

 

[spinlondon]

My initial response was to point out that even 12V circuitry requires RCD protection in special locations.

However, I then realised that you are quite correct.

BS7671 allows us to make departures from the Regulations, if we as the designer consider the departure offers the same degree of safety as would be achieved by compliance with the Regulations.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

However, I then realised that you are quite correct.

Whats new? :C

This is normal for a large percentage of your post...

Which quite possibly 98%+ of forum members have already sussed out..

Waffle & argument some may claim

or

in a paraphrase of one of those well known home moving programs

"Contradiction.. Contradiction.. Contradiction"

Some may say the evidence is within the "Reputations" & "Likes" counts

from other members.....

but I couldn't possibly comment:| :innocent ]

P.S.

I voted Yes! ; \

 

[spinlondon]

Specs, you may not realise this, but I don't actually give two hoots about reputations & likes. If I did, I would probably just agree with everyone irrespective of whether they are actually correct.

However, just as something to do, I actually worked the percentage ratio between the number of posts we have both made, and the number of likes we have both received. Yours works out 21% and mine as 19%. does that mean you are liked 2% more than me?

I also don't particuarly care if people disagree with my point of view. Of course it would be nice if people could actually back up their arguments with some form of evidence, and it would also be nice if they could also make their arguments without resorting to disparaging and insulting comments.

I would like to think that my views at least get people to consider the Regulations and perhaps even become more familiar with them.

Yes if you take the question literally, you can wire a domestic house without the use of an RCD. The answer is obviously yes.

However if you actually take on board Manator's origional post, he indicates that the poll is based on the current Regulations.

As such the only way the answer the answer can be yes, is if a departure from BS7671 is made.

I'll leave you decide whether departing from the Regulations would be complying with them.

Just as I'll leave to you the posting of disparaging comments.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

To be honest, this is rather a pointless discussion, as no one is prepared to put forth a scenario where they believe RCD protection can be omitted, whilst still complying with BS7671.

Specs, you may not realise this, but I don't actually give two hoots about reputations & likes. If I did, I would probably just agree with everyone irrespective of whether they are actually correct.However, just as something to do, I actually worked the percentage ratio between the number of posts we have both made, and the number of likes we have both received. Yours works out 21% and mine as 19%. does that mean you are liked 2% more than me?

I also don't particularly care if people disagree with my point of view. Of course it would be nice if people could actually back up their arguments with some form of evidence, and it would also be nice if they could also make their arguments without resorting to disparaging and insulting comments.I would like to think that my views at least get people to consider the Regulations and perhaps even become more familiar with them.

Yes if you take the question literally, you can wire a domestic house without the use of an RCD. The answer is obviously yes.

However if you actually take on board Manator's origional post, he indicates that the poll is based on the current Regulations.

As such the only way the answer the answer can be yes, is if a departure from BS7671 is made.

I'll leave you decide whether departing from the Regulations would be complying with them.

Just as I'll leave to you the posting of disparaging comments.

Three more contradictions immediately jump out!

I thought this was a point less thread... didn't someone say that?

and for some one NOT interested its a lot of calculations.. (could of just quickly glanced at the green dots!? )

Actually I don't give too hoots about people who don't back up many of their arguments...

reminds me of someone waffling on about what scheme members certificates had written on them, and how the schemes applied their rules..

But then said oh but I am not a member of any scheme.. so I dont know!!

Hang on..

coming back to the old Contradiction.. Contradiction.. Contradiction.. theme again..

I wonder why???

Which bring me back to my earlier post..

Whats new? :C This is normal for a large percentage of your post...

Which quite possibly 98%+ of forum members have already sussed out..

Waffle & argument some may claim

or

in a paraphrase of one of those well known home moving programs

"Contradiction.. Contradiction.. Contradiction"

Some may say the evidence is within the "Reputations" & "Likes" counts

from other members.....

but I couldn't possibly comment:| :innocent ]

P.S.

I voted Yes! ; \

I think its as Sidewinder implied some just cant grasp the context of Manators OP and question..

Now that was a better way to get people to consider the regs IMHO!

:C

 

[ianmacd]

Well, as expected, a farce. Putting RCD sockets in is still having an RCD so you have just proved its not possible to rewire a domestic premises without RCD's.

Disregarding manufacturers requirements for RCD protection is also very bad. Just because its not in the special location does not mean you can ignore them. You do not know the reason the manufacturer has specified the need for an RCD so how can you argue its not needed.

And as for the 'like for like' suggestion, that only applies when the cable is damaged and has to follow the same route which may not be possible for a variety of reasons.