Making Tax Digital - impact on the self employed....

[Murdoch]

I was listening to BBC's Money Box yesterday and it sounds as if this will catch the self employed in FY2018

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08byfhs

its the first 10 minutes you need to listen to..

So we are going to have to submit data to HMRC, on line, 4 times a year !

How are people who are not IT literate, or not even on line (yes, these people do exist) going to adapt to the change?

Discuss.....

 

[Kurt]

A bit like VAT but what worries me is how you manage it when your personal tax is still annual, I see lots of corrections needing to be made throughout the year. In 6 years only had to correct a VAT submission once but cannot see me getting CT correct so will probably just stuff in an estimate and correct it at year end

 

[Murdoch]

I use business software so at the end of each quarter I can find the information I need by running a simple report .... so my numbers will be accurate (ish)

Makes you wonder what will happen if you enter estimates and then try and go back to amend them.....

 

[Kurt]

Large corporations already have to deal with quarterlies and an overall annual, I think most of the allowances are annually based. Dividend allowances are annual, so is personal tax allowance and personal tax thresholds which will need some thought about how and when to pay oneself.

 

[Sidewinder]

Why should they care, they can rape you for more tax, and then fine you when you get it wrong, so they just stuff up the working man again, and rape them for more money, the establishment cares not.

They will just impose it and hit you with a big stick if you get it wrong.

 

[Lurch]

I read about this a while ago and my thoughts were I don't care, I'm already paperless/digital and have been for several years.

I use Quickfile (mainly because it does integration with merchants for direct debit and card payments) but I have found it replaced a bookkeeper and I actually have some idea of what is going on with the accounts now. I still have an accountant do the end of year and SA etc.

There are quite a few accountants and bookkeepers who use the service so there is no reason why it should affect anyone too much, if you are not online and/or are computer illiterate pick an accountant/bookkeeper who isn't. Someone is going to say 'but I do my own books and I don't have a computer', well then get one or get someone else to do them. Pretty sure that you will be in a minority there so no-one is going to listen to your complaints.

 

[Evans Electric]

Doubt you can win with them TBH .

I had a running battle with them regarding the dreaded CIS scheme ....constantly threatening to fine me  every month ...in the end I stopped employing anyone and resigned from the scheme .

 

[Andy™]

Doubt you can win with them TBH .

unless youre a large business who can afford lawyers to tell HMRC what tax you are and are not paying whether its the legally required amount or not

 

[Evans Electric]

I was listening to BBC's Money Box yesterday and it sounds as if this will catch the self employed in FY2018

Always worth a listen TBH.   R4  by the way.

 

[Sidewinder]

unless youre a large business who can afford lawyers to tell HMRC what tax you are and are not paying whether its the legally required amount or not

That is what happens, and is simply wrong.

If the Gov't has defined a tax rate, then any organisation trading in that jurisdiction, must just pay tax accordingly, if they don't want to, then they can simply stop trading in said jurisdiction and courgette off until they are willing to comply with the laws of the land.

Oh, and also they can make sure that the **** they sell is legally compliant with safety requirements too at the same time.

 

[Evans Electric]

I was listening to BBC's Money Box yesterday and it sounds as if this will catch the self employed in FY2018

Always worth a listen TBH.

 

[Evans Electric]

No I'm not

No I'm not

Oh yes so I am  ..it was a technical clitch

Oh yes so I am ..it was a technical glitch :C

 

[Murdoch]

Money box live on this coming Wednesday is about this too.

I'll be listening to the podcast at my leisure!

 

[Evans Electric]

I always had the feeling that HMRC were not happy with  self employed construction based individuals  only paying tax once per year .

They were not happy with the 714  system so imposed the extra burden on the employer to deduct tax at source with  the pathetic  CIS  scheme  , which imposed a load of form filling  on us every month.....and woe betide you if you were late getting them off .  

And the most pathetic bit of the CIS was your proof that a deduction had been made by a contractor ...no proper form , a scrap of paper , back of a fag packet   or , as I heard quite a few times ............   no proof at all given to subby , tax deducted from pay ,  not paid on to HMRC ....subby ends up having to pay it again at the end of the year . 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I can't believe that any small business (self employed) could survive very long nowerdays without being computer savvy....

Don't know how id cope without online searching and ordering of materials.

or e-mails / internet enquiries about prospective jobs...

or invoicing..

or keeping up-to-date with industry changes via forums like here!!

so its not surprising that HMRC want to push 'paperless' 

Its understandable for some elderly homeowners to be 'off-grid' when it comes to internet connectivity...

But any business relying on hard copy everything and no e-mail or surfing must be dead in the water!

:C

 

[Murdoch]

I can't believe that any small business (self employed) could survive very long nowerdays without being computer savvy....

Not sure I agree with that.... we sparks tend to be IT savy but what about the labourers who work on site for various people? gardeners? etc

My window cleaner went over to BACs payments about 4 years ago so he'll be ok!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Not sure I agree with that.... we sparks tend to be IT savy but what about the labourers who work on site for various people? gardeners? etc

My window cleaner went over to BACs payments about 4 years ago so he'll be ok!

Judging by the amount of 'other' internet related activity... 

which loads of ordinary workers, be they gardeners, hairdressers, dog-walkers, painters, plumbers, electricians etc....

are using everyday via on-line services....

Then internet / computer / smartphone / tablet etc.. competence is certainly not the minority..

and the number who don't have some sort of access..

(predominately the older generation, more likely to be retired or retiring soon)...

will be a steadily shrinking group.   

Amazon, E-bay, Netflix, I-player, Music downloads, Kindle type e-books, online supermarket deliveries, Train tickets, Cinema/Concert/Festival tickets, Sports events, Airline travel, Facebook, Twitter, other social media groups, FaceTime, Snapchat, Fast food deliveries, Taxi's,  Bucket loads of on-line gaming applications, Car insurance, Switching energy suppliers, (online Forums!), Holiday bookings, Car rental, Car purchase/sell, On-line doctors appointments, Student finance applications, Customer service & support for loads of everyday products, Personal fitness planning tracking and performance recording apps, Updates for phone, All sorts of personal photo/video management and sharing applications...  etc.. etc..  etc...

These sorts of things are being used day in day out by the majority of normal workers or labourers, be they employed or self employed..

I certainly don't think it is only Sparks who have an upper hand in 'IT Savvyness'.

you only have to look at the adverts on TV and see how many relate to some sort of internet based service...

So its not surprising that HMRC are jumping on the same bandwagon as everyone else.

Guinness

 

[Kurt]

My parents are 80+ and use internet banking, internet shopping and dad loves his Galaxy Tab. Neither had a job that involved using computers, so if they can, anyone can.

Sounds like cant cook wont cook to me.

GOV should crack on and get it done asap.

DVLA stuff is really good but the PAYE is not brilliant.

 

[Evans Electric]

Probably not too many people now who wouldn't manage ,  accountant would  do it for them anyway ....at  a cost of course .  

 

[Lurch]

accountant would  do it for them anyway ....at  a cost of course

But if you pick the right accountant it shouldn't cost any more than an out of touch accountant. It actually costs me less to use an accountant who does it all digitally.