So 8th June.........

[Sidewinder]

Brown was chancellor and later PM, he was in charge of the regulatory bodies  from 1997 to 2010. He admits it was a failure on his watch but also states he was of the same thinking as most western economies. i.e. Sleepwalking.... I am only saying Brown because really he is the only elected (not by me) person who we can blame... the rest are civil servants and CEOs of plcs, incs and the like -

Like I said, hold them accountable.

All of them not just the elected, but, the issue is that limited companies must by law put profits before everything else, that is the root cause of what is and will always be the failure of capitalism.

Companies, must legally make profit for their shareholders to the detriment of everything else and everyone else.

That is immoral.

 

[binky]

Brown was chancellor and later PM, he was in charge of the regulatory bodies  from 1997 to 2010. He admits it was a failure on his watch but also states he was of the same thinking as most western economies. i.e. Sleepwalking.... I am only saying Brown because really he is the only elected (not by me) person who we can blame... the rest are civil servants and CEOs of plcs, incs and the like -

or we could blame the person who deregulated banking. Brown was actually trying to put some controls in place, but if I recall correctly the political siutation ' light touch regulation' meant a weaker attempt than was needed. Even then, it wasn't Brown that invented NINJAs or covered that up as solid investments. The banks are actually to blame for not even understanding WTGrape they were investing in in their haste to greedily make money.

 

[Kurt]

I don't know about legally , but if they didn't make profit or at least a good impression of future profits, there wouldn't be any shareholders,

I wouldn't invest my hard earned in a company that said it would put the planet first and maybe, just maybe we might make a shilling or two..

SOD THAT... lol

 

[apprentice87]

Like I said, hold them accountable.

All of them not just the elected, but, the issue is that limited companies must by law put profits before everything else, that is the root cause of what is and will always be the failure of capitalism.

Companies, must legally make profit for their shareholders to the detriment of everything else and everyone else.

That is immoral.

And it is also the reason for the demise of the british car and bike industry etc etc. The shareholders [I believe in the case of BSA it was lord and lady Docker of gold rolls royce fame] vote to grab all the money and there is none left for re-investment. Then they wonder why the **** took over!!!

john..

 

[Murdoch]

wouldn't disagree with that kurt, bar pressure from banks to leave them alone or they would jump ship to another country possibly had something to do witht he lack of regulation.

Still doesn't explain why It's Browns' fault

Hum.... It's not just brown's fault BUT he was running a big deficit when the crash happened...... Something the left refuse to accept..... Had he been running a balanced budget or even a small surplus, the down turn wouldn't have anything like as painful as it was....

 

[binky]

Was the defecit £trillions, NO. Even a small surplus would have made little difference

 

[Murdoch]

Was the defecit £trillions, NO. Even a small surplus would have made little difference

Hum.... Classic uneducated mistake of mixing up the national debt with the deficit...

 

[apprentice87]

Hum.... Classic uneducated mistake of mixing up matters of state like the national debt, with just handing out trillions to your friends that run banks to prop up THEIR failed businesses more like....

The "national debt" is completely separate to the bail out of the banks apart from they could have paid off th national debt, but no instead, lets give the money to the banks...

john..

 

[steptoe]

OK,

Is it just me?

Or is this a case of labour voters slagging Tory, , and vice versa,?

That's typical of not going anywhere.

I really don't see any point of this going on anymore,.

And I don't think I've ever said that before, having been a member here before this forum was even here.

I'd respectfully ask a mod to just close this rather than turn the forum into a political tit for tat.

 

[apprentice87]

I agree to be honest... Both sides will never agree or change their viewpoints, so it is all fairly pointless.

Can we argue about earthing or something instead!! or what about pictures of motorbikes??

john..

 

[steptoe]

I agree to be honest... Both sides will never agree or change their viewpoints, so it is all fairly pointless.

Can we argue about earthing or something instead!! or what about pictures of motorbikes??

john..

Don't start that **** about earthing,

As for motorbikes,,,,,,,

Dingers will always be superior,

Here's a picture of a tractor to keep you going in the meantime,

 

[Doc Hudson]

I'd respectfully ask a mod to just close this rather than turn the forum into a political tit for tat.

At 130 posts and a few pages it is a bit long winded to try and read through. I think M107's initial point was; Is the Labour Party at risk of self destruction with the current leadership. (paraphrased as 'your boys are in for one hell of a beating'). rather than which political party has been right or wrong in the past.

Every political party has some good points and bad points about their policies, promises and work actually done. And whichever political party is in power, there needs to be a strong opposition to try and keep a balance on how the county is run, otherwise some sectors of society can be completely overpowered and left with no rights, or decent standard of living, or ability to better themselves or their families. So it is good that this forum reflects the general society we all live and work in, with a balance of people from different political viewpoints.

However as Steptoe points out sometimes a debate can become stuck in a loop with no realistic conclusion. Bit like with the snooker world championship on at the moment, where a match gets stuck in a stagnation of safety shots that needs a re-rack as the game is going nowhere. Nether side has won or lost, but it just needs to clear the decks and re-start. So I think I will call a "re-rack" on this thread and close it down as requested. In a bit of another snooker example, lets take a mid-session break for a cup of tea (or other more suitable beverage). Then restart a new frame (or thread) that will be easier to follow and pick up. (Any problems with this, then PM me and the thread could be re-opened)

Doc H.

 

[Doc Hudson]

(Any problems with this, then PM me and the thread could be re-opened)   

Following suggestion by one respected member this thread had been closed, However, as requested another respected member has PM'd and suggests it remains open. So in the balance of fairness we will let is run again for a while and see how things develop.

Doc H. 

 

[Murdoch]

Was the defecit £trillions, NO. Even a small surplus would have made little difference

My point is that Labour voters continually point at the governments since 2010 as they have been running deficits and adding to the national debt ... however the facts show that Labour were running a deficit PRIOR to the crash and therefore were adding to the debt ... not only do we need a balanced budget, we need a fairly large surplus to start making reasonable payments to reduce the overall deficit.

The EU didn't help either - their rules allow Governments to run up to a 3% deficit...... and then they have done nothing to actually stop Governments running up debt at a higher rate..

 

[Blue Duck]

Is this one of those political threads???

 

[M107]

 I think M107's initial point was; Is the Labour Party at risk of self destruction with the current leadership. 

You are bang on Doc H

After a call from a forum member who told me about the thread a few days after I'd posted I did start to have a read through some of the posts................. :C  gave up on page 3; only wanted to say I thought labour were on a loser & May had played a strategic blinder for a politician, didn't mean for everybody to fall out about it :coat

Anyway Abbott has scored the best own goal ever ............. funny to listen to a normally gobby whatsit be stuck for words msl:

 

[Tony S]

Is this one of those political threads???

 

[binky]

My point is that Labour voters continually point at the governments since 2010 as they have been running deficits and adding to the national debt ... however the facts show that Labour were running a deficit PRIOR to the crash and therefore were adding to the debt ... not only do we need a balanced budget, we need a fairly large surplus to start making reasonable payments to reduce the overall deficit.

The EU didn't help either - their rules allow Governments to run up to a 3% deficit...... and then they have done nothing to actually stop Governments running up debt at a higher rate..

don't know if you saw this on Newsnight last night. You will have to watch the iplayer verion for the various graphics / comparisons with other leading economies to get full argument, which basically shows that the UK is running less deficit than say Germany. Seems also we have ended up with Millibands plans???

 

[binky]

You are bang on Doc H

After a call from a forum member who told me about the thread a few days after I'd posted I did start to have a read through some of the posts................. :C  gave up on page 3; only wanted to say I thought labour were on a loser & May had played a strategic blinder for a politician, didn't mean for everybody to fall out about it :coat

Anyway Abbott has scored the best own goal ever ............. funny to listen to a normally gobby whatsit be stuck for words msl:

since when did any thread on here not go off on a Tangent :slap .

S'funny thing the Corbyn effect, Labour party membership is now up around 450,000 as compared to Tory party at I think 150,000ish. I do think the press are doing their best to put Corbyn down, I also think when he speaks he makes very good points, or at least has consistent well thought message.

 

[binky]

Is this one of those political threads???

 very and unashamable political :slap and why not, there's far too much political apathy in the UK.

So what's next from the most likely winners of the next election? More tax hikes, indirectly of course. Under Osbourns' amazing plan to balance the books, all local councils are to become self-sufficient by 2020, ie no money from central government, which amounts to a 20% hike in council tax to maintain current spending on services. Now this is probably fine in wealthy areas of the country, but in areas like Devon and Cornwall, where housing is expensive, wages relatively low, and population density is fairly low, I suspect this will have a severe impact on working families, and working people in general. We have very large infrastructure issues like roads, all those lovelly country lanes to repair / leave full of potholes, we also have a high proportion or retired and elderly people, cos you all like to retire down here. So the relatively few working people will be burdened with the expense of adult care etc etc.

What also really bothers me is little talk about how to improve the economy and generate real growth in the UKs earnings from abroad, whether that be services like banking, software products or manufactured goods. Without real stimulus for business, I can't see us ever paying the bills/ national debt or improving our lives.