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steptoe

5 week wonders

I am one of the following  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. I am one of the following

    • 5 week wonder
    • time served
    • time served self certifying
    • self certifying other, plumber etc, please specify
    • interested other, diyer etc, please specify
    • something else, please explain


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batty
Limited scope is one area where I have always been strongly opposed to.

Kitchen fitters who do the part P are only supposed to be limited to alterations and never to full circuits or cu changes, however I have heard stories (rumours) that they even quote for rewires and cu changes.

You can not blame them if they get away with it, you should blame the scheme providers who do not really care as long as the revenue is comming in.

That is why I like being with Bsi they only do full scope and as they have lots of other interests they have never pushed the part p scheme. I would never join NICEIC as feel you would only be a number with them.

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ianmacd
I would never join NICEIC as feel you would only be a number with them.

I thought that too and thats why I chose ELECSA (and they were cheaper ;p ).

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ianmacd

The 5 day courses teach people to pass exams not an assessment with a little club so if someone can pass a full scope assessment (Both practical and theoretical) then does that not suggest a higher than average understanding/skill than the average person doing the courses?

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green-hornet

Dont get me wrong, being registered with them and wearing the emblem on my uniforms has indeed opened a few doors, most people only see the NICEIC logo and treat it in much the same way as Corgi or now Gas Safe.

What I do disagree with is the fact that monies are taken, and then your more or less left alone until more monies are due to be exchanged.

Everyone who knows me, know I have very strong views on the ineptitude of part p and its rushed conception.

I do not mind paying the fee, as long as those who do not, are not allowed to do any work that registered people should be doing.

Which is why I feel Part P is failing.

On a secondary note, I have a very good relationship with most of the engineers at the NICEIC and I remember one of them telling me one year that a kitchen fitter on the limited scope, was one of the few people who impressed him because of his knowledge of the regulations, so again even I contradict my very own opinion.

So anything I do say is personal to me, and should be taken with a pinch of salt as the saying goes.

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steptoe

I have enjoyed reading this thread, and believe it or not, the many different viewpoint s are being taken on board,

and, I suppose, on reflection the term 5week wonder can be seen as slightly derogatory, even tho its not intended to be, so I'll try and avoid it in future.

like I said, its simply a way of helping me to grasp how much/little knowledge of a particular job you may or may not have.

BTW, if its any consolation to you Aggie hates it when I refer to an apprenticeship story by saying "when I was serving my time......"

she reckons it sounds like I was in prison.......

........but thats another story...........

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Bez

Not sure if I'm classed as a "5 week wonder" or not really. The only formal qualifications I have are 2382 & 2377. I went on a Part P course to reinforce what I had picked up from 10 years as an electricians mate, in an industrial environment, back in the good old days. (80's).

I plan to do 2391 later this year and am still debating with myself whether it's worth me doing 2330 coupled with NVQ 3, I have to say cost is a major factor. Even at my local college it's

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Spark267

I got into it by helping out a friend of a friend on a few jobs when I was out of work. Quite liked it so thought I should make a go of it and get my qualifications. Trained with OLCI at the same time as working, which was a good way to practice what I was learning. I thought they were good really, liked the guys I was with and all the teachers and it was pitched at the right level for me. Took me about 14 months to get my NVQ, left a bit of gap between each session to make sure I had enough practice to pass the assessments. finished a year or so ago and still going strong now.

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Admin

Welcome to the forum Spark267.

It's good to have you on-board.

:)

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Lillpete

I think there are good and bad electricians from both newcomers to the industry and time served ("that's how we've always done it") I think that these courses teach the regs quite well but obviously you are going to come across all manor of things in the real world that a course cannot prepare you for. Personally I went from being an ifa to an electrician, the only real option was to take a 5 week wonder course, after which I spent 3 years on around

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jl-heating

there is no option for me ??

mon,tues,wed,thur exam fri morning ....

would that be 4 day or 5 day wonder ??????

please edit the pole accordingly . :)

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steptoe

I think as your a plumber jl we can assume its a wonder your still alive after 5days.

i have a failsafe in the last option.! :D

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steptoe
there is no option for me ??

mon,tues,wed,thur exam fri morning ....

would that be 4 day or 5 day wonder ??????

please edit the pole accordingly . :)

whats option 3 then.?

edit: or 4 even, Blushing

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safedepth

I'm something else!

A father who before finding the bottle was a cabinet maker and would encourage me to fettle a spare piece of wood in the workshop.

22 years in the Submarine service which included various C & G qualifications in electrical and mechanical engineering. Back in 1999 a HND in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. This was a 2 year full time course fortunately paid for by the RN.

Countless hours as a keen diy'er over the years including rewires and new circuits. All this was done with knowledge of how it's done without any testing:coat

PAT course back in 2007, DEI and C&G 2382 at a local college in 2009. C&G 2391 in November last year.

Now trading on my own, constantly looking to learn without stretching too far from my comfort zone and very grateful to the helpful posters on this forum.

I couldn't call myself a 5 week wonder as I haven't completed 5 weeks of specific domestic electrical training. I have on the other hand done about 4 years of engineering training along with 18 years of on the job training. I don't claim to know how to be an experienced DI but I am aware of my limitations and know how to ask.

I would also like to thank Steptoe for his earlier comment and new found love of us newbie old people!;)

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steptoe
I'm something else!

A father who before finding the bottle was a cabinet maker and would encourage me to fettle a spare piece of wood in the workshop.

22 years in the Submarine service which included various C & G qualifications in electrical and mechanical engineering. Back in 1999 a HND in Electrical and Electronic Engineering. This was a 2 year full time course fortunately paid for by the RN.

Countless hours as a keen diy'er over the years including rewires and new circuits. All this was done with knowledge of how it's done without any testing:coat

PAT course back in 2007, DEI and C&G 2382 at a local college in 2009. C&G 2391 in November last year.

Now trading on my own, constantly looking to learn without stretching too far from my comfort zone and very grateful to the helpful posters on this forum.

I couldn't call myself a 5 week wonder as I haven't completed 5 weeks of specific domestic electrical training. I have on the other hand done about 4 years of engineering training along with 18 years of on the job training. I don't claim to know how to be an experienced DI but I am aware of my limitations and know how to ask.

I would also like to thank Steptoe for his earlier comment and new found love of us newbie old people!;)

Im not really sure if my referance to short course people is aimed at anyone in particular,

I can merely respond as per my own experiences, mostly with guys in their late 20s earlyish 30s, and I suppose even one guy who at the age of 31 (I think) has just last year completed a 3yr night course at college,

and all of these people know so much more than me that they have no reason to either listen to some helpful advice, or heed some prior warnings.

maybe Ive had all the knobs.!!!!!

gawd, looks like it compared with this forum, where most members are forward thinking enough to ask for input.

even if I am a stubborn old goat set in his ways. ;)

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jameseye12

Yes I'm a Seven Week Wonder, but I had 6 years experience before that so the course didn't teach me a lot, just got me the qualifications

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Theorysparky

14311 members.......great stuff

but.......

only 10 5WW really ??????

and only 65 voted ........

so that means........

14246 diyers !!!!!!!!! :^O:^O

so that accounts for some of the daft,dangerous questions we get..........

:slap:slap:slap

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tom1

i posted ages ago but did not vote so have just voted, so 66 votes and counting:)

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a1spark

now 67 Tom.

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chrishaworth

Just found this thread so here goes:

I went to a school which allowed me to take my O levels at fifteen, which I duly did. On informing my parents that I had had enough of school, I was offered the choice of pig farming, sheet metalworking, the Merchant Navy or homelessness. After discovering that both pig farming and sheet metal working considered me over qualified, I duly left for Grimsby to do a Radio Officer's course. The course was 2 years and 3 months full time plus a further 6 months for the Radar Maintenance Certificate. After 3 years at sea, I put myself through the Advanced electronics course, which was 6 months full time for 3 T5s. After an interesting life, I ended up on Dive support ships with a wonderful mixture of HV, MV and computerised generator control. There came a point in the late 80's where I realised that I was doing far more computer programming than electrics, so I set up my own company doing software for offshore companies. Worked well until 2003 when small companies lost their contracts. I'd been developing a controller for interfacing solid fuel with gas/oil, so I took the time off and patented it, designed the PCB, set up the CAT, sourced a supplier in Taiwan for the PCBs and built a web site to sell them. So far 90% of my sales are local (population c 600, so call that 6). So what to do? Did 2381 via a distance learning site, which to be honest my dog could have passed (and he's been dead for 10 years). Then the 2391, which is a different kettle of fish and through the NIC assessment for AC. I rate myself on: Positives, having been taught a generalized level of electircs and fault finding techniques to a deep level and having taught them myself. Negatives: Haven't seen this before.

Cheers

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Sidewinder

Well, as this thread has been awakened!

I have voted, other, so I guess I had better put up my background, for those who don't already know, or had I?...

Time Served, 4 yr EITB apprenticeship, to wind up Mrs Steps! ;)

C&G's in Fab & Weld, Mech, Elect, HNC Engineering, BSc., BSc.(hons), MEng, 2330 L1 &2, 2381, 2382, 2391-10 & 2391-02, 2377 (both), NEBOSH GC, and a multitude of other courses.

Apprenticeship in factory & machine maintenance, multi skilled 4 years indentured (EITB).

2 jobs in factory / machine maintenance.

Went into CNC machine tool service, including, installation, repair, modifications, programming etc. covering the globe.

Left there went into staff engineering in Production for a global Blue Chip Tier 1 Automotive supplier local to home.

Left there and went to work for a 3rd party CNC and other machine and control systems repair company, all aspects, covering around about a 200 mile radius from home.

Left there and went to work for a CNC, Servo, PLC, Inverter, Hydraulic & Pneumatic (amongst others) manufacturer of industrial control systems, global blue chip company.

Covered the whole of the UK from home, doing sales, applications, service, design and business development, including engineering business processes, customers ranged from global to minute, from machine OEM's to end users, industries from food through to automotive including aerospace, printing and a multitude of others, many global blue chip, many pretty much unheard of!

At the beginning of the recession and with several other business changes was made redundant along with others.

Already had quals & experience from several other "sidelines", purchased the company my wife had worked for for many years as the then current owners wanted to sell up.

Changed the direction of the company slightly by adding additional services that I could do, i.e. machine repairs etc. mech & elect & gained NICEIC AC status for business reasons.

Have kept this up through the recession even though there have been downsides!

Currently doing domestic, commercial and industrial and machinery repairs and mods etc. on the tools, including H&S consultancy and other design and consultancy stuff based on my professional qualifications, not all of which are listed, you'd fall asleep!

So from house bashing to consultancy, mech and elect, with a bit of plumbing thrown in!

Never do gas though!!!

Whether I qualify as a spark is debatable, though, the JIB have given me an electricians gold card!...

Cheers.

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Graham Lister

Sorry sidewinder but without an NVQ you are not qualified!

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Zeespark

According to whom Graham? ALOT of the guys on here served their time before the NVQ was introduced, and are more than able to pass an equivalency test because they have been on the tools for donkeys years.

AndyGuinness

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Sidewinder
Sorry sidewinder but without an NVQ you are not qualified!

Graham,

I never had the option of doing an NVQ as they were not around when I did my apprenticeship, I was an indentured apprentice.

I did actually proof read some of the NVQ requirements documents as the awarding bodies wanted independent and qualified personnel to review them prior to release.

The awarding bodies went to the Engineering Institutes for this and as I sat on one of the committees at that time and had some spare time I volunteered.

It seemed they were a good idea and well structured "on paper" at that time

There will be a lot of tradesmen around without NVQ's as they are a new qualification.

I have done NVQ format qualifications since my apprenticeship, and other similar under the NQF.

The JIB were happy with my indentures and my EITB & C&G certificates from my apprenticeship.

I was told that there was no need for me to go to the expense of converting my older qualifications into an NVQ.

There in lies another old chestnut, those of us who trained prior to the NVQ, why should we have to re-train to obtain an NVQ?

For some it would not be possible as we are not in a business structure where there could be no way of obtaining one?

Also Graham, I don't think that you can make such a sweeping statement, a qualified Electrical Engineer may well not have an NVQ, but that does not make them any less qualified.

You are suggesting that I am not qualified as what exactly?

What NVQ should I have to be qualified and why should I have this, when it did not exist when I did my apprenticeship?

As an aside then what has changed?

Does this now mean that everyone who did an indentured apprenticeship under say the old EITB scheme (for example, but there were others) with log books and C&G academic qualifications is no longer qualified?

By the way, I still have my EITB log books, and my module books, my C&G course notes and obviously the certs, from both the EITB & the C&G. ;)

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m4tty

I think somehow sidewinders qualifications blow the nvq out of the water lol

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Zeespark
I think somehow sidewinders qualifications blow the nvq out of the water

Try telling that to the jobsworths that have never even seen a building site Matty, they would be dumbfounded.

AndyGuinness

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