5 week wonders

[steptoe]

ok here goes College C&G electronics servicing 223/224 (now defunct)

analogue/digital techniques, electrical power theory and all that kind of stuff.

Got a trainee bench engineer job with Mastercare, Currys and Dixons repair service. Spent 13 happy years repairing all manner of brown goods from record players to plasma tvs.

Was made redundant, worked with brother in law (spark) for a while completed 5 week wonder course, over a period of 6 months, now self employed doing mainly domestic and small commercial jobs.

Just for the record - :|

I too get a little annoyed with this idea that anyone who completes a 5 week course is somehow to blame for every bad job out there.

If you are lucky enough to get an apprenticeship - great,

If you can afford to go to night school - great,

are you going to be a good electrician?

Only time and experience will tell.

GuinnessGuinness

there is no doubt that some 5week wonders are good,

unfortunately I have yet to meet them.

its not a derogatory comment, its a fact.

I also know some time served sparks that are about as much use as **** on a boar too.

the reason I ask people if they are 5week wonders is often 2fold or they have gave me reasonable thought to question how much they know, how much experience they have,

if I know someone is 5week then I can adjust my response accordingly,

ie, not many 5weeks on the job for a fortnight would get my approval for changing a 48way 3ph board if they started asking questions as to what size sub main they needed/how do i terminate it/is this PME or TT system, and do I need a separate earth to go to my outside toilet along with my 3ph board fitted just behind the cistern.

in short, if I know you are a "5week wonder" then I can appreciate the need for you to sometimes ask questions I would otherwise thought basic knowledge after 5years.

I dont mind trying to explain to someone the basics of borrowed neutrals and singles for 2way switching on landing lights.

 

[revjames]

There is no such thing as a 5 week wonder. The 5 weeks is just the beginning.

 

[Theorysparky]

Steps..

In response to your last post.........

what 5 week sparky would attempt a 3 phase 48 way board ??????

i thought those courses covered domestic only

although i have worked on a 3 phase industrial board under strict supervision you guys can keep them..

 

[steptoe]

Steps..In response to your last post.........

what 5 week sparky would attempt a 3 phase 48 way board ??????

i thought those courses covered domestic only

although i have worked on a 3 phase industrial board under strict supervision you guys can keep them..

exactly my point theory, and it was only an example, the people doing this are IDIOTS, and they do exist.

I was sent to check on a rewire once that was being done by one of them,

2nd week out of his course and he was rewiring a house with no help, and not asking for any advice!

the bonding clamps had just been wrapped around the pipes(not actually clamped),

no 2way switching anywhere(he didnt know how to do it, sw at top of stairs done landing light only, sw at bottom done hall light only), 3 1gang switches in living room for wall lights, and 2 centre lights, he didnt know how to connect a 3gang sw.

no low level sockets for washer etc, immersion heater of ring final, 2channel boiler plugged in to socket(NOT a combi)so on all the time.

my point being that some people seem to be asking questions that very obviously seem to be beyond their knowledge and experience therefore should wait until they learn more about it before they are doing that particular job.

 

[ianmacd]

my point being that some people seem to be asking questions that very obviously seem to be beyond their knowledge and experience therefore should wait until they learn more about it before they are doing that particular job.

Surly you must agree that even by coming here and asking questions they are smart enough to ask for help? Should they expect what could be seen as harassment in response? Will that encourage other's with questions, the desire to ask and learn and work safely to avoid this forum? I think it may.

Please do not think I am moaning at you Steps but this entire poll is an example of the contempt some people seem to show to others on this forum.

 

[Theorysparky]

There are questions

and there are questions

 

[vandalay]

Steptoes point is valid (people doing jobs outside their field of experience) but this applies to all of us in the trade. I realise there are idiots who sit the online 17th( i took a class with some of them) and think they are ready to rewire a factory by themselves.

However I have also worked with lads who done full apprentiships who are as bad in different ways as in standards of work and not being able to answer questions I was asking whilst trying to build up my own experience.

Like the Rev said if you have brain and genuine interest in the job 5 weeks is where you start . I myself after 3 yrs working am only now comfortable with domestic jobs and would not go near more heavy boards without a more experianced spark alongside me.

 

[green-hornet]

I think steptoe has a valid point here, and one which can really help anyone who needs some advise when they ask a question.

Most of my work was always 3 phase, so the background basics are sort of second nature.

With that any question I was asked I would automatically ASSUME that they know them basics too.

Example:

I was called into a local factory because they had a broken down machine, "after" one of the operators told the manager that his mate was an electrician and would sort it out for him.

Every machine in the factory was 3 phase, and when I asked what the problem was I was told that the electrician who was called out first could not identify the problem other than to say there was no nuetral to the machines motor.

Now there is a good reason why no nuetral is taken to a 3 phase motor (its not required), but this electrician did not know that basic fact.

The problem turned out to be a phase which had gone down, fixed by a simple flick of a breaker. Much more cost effective than installing a new motor, or trying to find where to connect a nuetral!

So you can see what steptoe is getting at, I can, and it would help when I answer a question, if I know I have to be a little more precise then I would, so all the basics are covered in the answer as well as the more obvious.

I do however dislike the term 5 week wonders, and I think it shows disrespect to people who have got off their backsides and at least done the course, many do not and fall into the catagory of downright dangerous.

I would not discriminate against any person who asks questions on this forum simply because they have had the balls to ask what is to many a simple question, BUT HAVE ASKED!

Respect to those who do ask before they try to blunder through.

You have, if your one who has taken the short cut to remember, most timed served electricians are jealous of you because they had to take far longer to qualify and because of this some will always look down on them, partly through ignorance and partly through jealousy.

You should all note though, the fact that you are members of this forum, you will always be considered equal to me.

 

[spinlondon]

On other forums the term used is '5 day wonders'. Apparently there are courses that you can do that will give a kitchen fitter etc. a basics in electrical installation.

The problem, seems to be that these people are then registered with a scheme provider, and are technically authorised to carry out any and all electrical installation work.

I think the problem is not whether someone is qualified or time served, but whether they are competent.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Moderator; No serving time or certifying required.

Doc H.

 

[green-hornet]

Limited scope is one area where I have always been strongly opposed to.

Kitchen fitters who do the part P are only supposed to be limited to alterations and never to full circuits or cu changes, however I have heard stories (rumours) that they even quote for rewires and cu changes.

You can not blame them if they get away with it, you should blame the scheme providers who do not really care as long as the revenue is comming in.

 

[Doc Hudson]

On other forums the term used is '5 day wonders'. Apparently there are courses that you can do that will give a kitchen fitter etc. a basics in electrical installation.The problem, seems to be that these people are then registered with a scheme provider, and are technically authorised to carry out any and all electrical installation work.I think the problem is not whether someone is qualified or time served, but whether they are competent.

I believe they have limited scope certification, not any and all electrical work.

Doc H.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Limited scope is one area where I have always been strongly opposed to.Kitchen fitters who do the part P are only supposed to be limited to alterations and never to full circuits or cu changes, however I have heard stories (rumours) that they even quote for rewires and cu changes.

You can not blame them if they get away with it, you should blame the scheme providers who do not really care as long as the revenue is comming in.

Stories and rumours will always be told, I am aware of reports of prosecutions for miss-use of alleged membership rights of a scheme. So your last statement whilst your opinion may not be totally accurate.

Doc H.

 

[green-hornet]

Was that a story or a rumour?

Sorry doc but you are correct and I do stand by my opinion biased as it is but only because I believe part P to be so flawed in its execution.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Was that a story or a rumour?Sorry doc but you are correct and I do stand by my opinion biased as it is but only because I believe part P to be so flawed in its execution.

You are very much entitled to your opinion GH, I was just playing the stand-in-defence for absent scheme providers not represented here.

Doc H.

 

[batty]

Limited scope is one area where I have always been strongly opposed to.Kitchen fitters who do the part P are only supposed to be limited to alterations and never to full circuits or cu changes, however I have heard stories (rumours) that they even quote for rewires and cu changes.

You can not blame them if they get away with it, you should blame the scheme providers who do not really care as long as the revenue is comming in.

That is why I like being with Bsi they only do full scope and as they have lots of other interests they have never pushed the part p scheme. I would never join NICEIC as feel you would only be a number with them.

 

[ianmacd]

I would never join NICEIC as feel you would only be a number with them.

I thought that too and thats why I chose ELECSA (and they were cheaper ;p ).

 

[ianmacd]

The 5 day courses teach people to pass exams not an assessment with a little club so if someone can pass a full scope assessment (Both practical and theoretical) then does that not suggest a higher than average understanding/skill than the average person doing the courses?

 

[green-hornet]

Dont get me wrong, being registered with them and wearing the emblem on my uniforms has indeed opened a few doors, most people only see the NICEIC logo and treat it in much the same way as Corgi or now Gas Safe.

What I do disagree with is the fact that monies are taken, and then your more or less left alone until more monies are due to be exchanged.

Everyone who knows me, know I have very strong views on the ineptitude of part p and its rushed conception.

I do not mind paying the fee, as long as those who do not, are not allowed to do any work that registered people should be doing.

Which is why I feel Part P is failing.

On a secondary note, I have a very good relationship with most of the engineers at the NICEIC and I remember one of them telling me one year that a kitchen fitter on the limited scope, was one of the few people who impressed him because of his knowledge of the regulations, so again even I contradict my very own opinion.

So anything I do say is personal to me, and should be taken with a pinch of salt as the saying goes.

 

[steptoe]

I have enjoyed reading this thread, and believe it or not, the many different viewpoint s are being taken on board,

and, I suppose, on reflection the term 5week wonder can be seen as slightly derogatory, even tho its not intended to be, so I'll try and avoid it in future.

like I said, its simply a way of helping me to grasp how much/little knowledge of a particular job you may or may not have.

BTW, if its any consolation to you Aggie hates it when I refer to an apprenticeship story by saying "when I was serving my time......"

she reckons it sounds like I was in prison.......

........but thats another story...........