an awkward customer

[maccarooni]

Hopefully you can view the attached letter i received from a customer today. Basically last year some time he had a flood in an empty househe owned, as his mother had passed on. Ceilings ruined etc etc. I quoted for the job and got it. Remove fittings, await redecoration etc and replace fittings like for like, (cheap pendants) tested and certified. job done. He was wanting to rent out the property so i recommended a PIR. Did it, basically property is 50 yrs old test results JUST about pass, some work needed to be done. Explain that age of install/ property is empty/would benifet from a rewire. No thanks we'll just have the minimum work done to get a cert, class 1 fittings with no cpc- broken accessories etc.OK gave price for remedials done and then certed, with obvious possible problems for this age of install. Now at the moment system is TT, CU in the garage down some steps at back of house. Got a call last week, from customer, rcd tripped cant get it back on. Get there and in a year a section of ring circuit has lost the last remaining insulation it had.Ok replace leg of ring, get it back up and running and bear in mind the property is still empty. Tell customer it will only get worse and to think again about rewire. He calls me to discuss cost and what would be involved.

So I start by saying

CU to be moved into house for convenience.

Only 1 s/o in each room so show him OSG with minimum recommendations.

Smoke /Heat alarms

extractors in bathroom/WC/Kitchen.

there's a shower cubicle in a bedroom- socket on the wall. its 2.5m away.

If hes renting-he may want to comply with part M for disabled heights on switches as they'll have to be chased in anyway.

we may have to replace some of the normal pendants to low energy to hit the 1 in 4 target for building regs.

Now your thoughts please, and if I were to accept the jop, can i just omit the thing that he does not want ?....

ie fan in wc

1 socket per room

keep a socket within 3m of a shower.

As always your input and feed back is always appreciated.

Macca

OMG thats the longest post i've ever done.........

 

[Lee321]

1 socket per room it stingy but not dangerous

the socket close to shower no thanks

 

[maccarooni]

Hi lostit

Its no that its stingy, I'm just going on the information from the OSG. If he does rent to a say family of 4/5 then 1 socket per room is not enough. Table 8B says the number of twin socket to be provided in homes is X amount per room, so if we pass on this information and the customer says no, are we to just accept this ?.

If so have I then not met a building reg with this and the fan in the wc.?

Macca

 

[NozSpark]

Remember that the On-site Guide is just a guide.

Therefore whilst you advise that they have more sockets installed, they are well within their right to not have any, although you must take into account the likely loading (& overloading) of any one socket.

As for heights of switches and sockets, part M only applies to new builds, so whilst it may be advisable to relocate them you don't have to.

Extractor fans... you don't have to fit them, although they might be advisable.

Socket within 3m of shower cubicle - does not comply with BS7671 and therefore doesn't comply with Part P which would therefore make the socket position illegal. Relocate it!

Remember building regs are not retrospective..

all IMHO

HTH

 

[kme]

Socket near shower - does it meet regs?

If not, the only options are move it, or note it as deviation on cert.

Same with building regs (part M) 1200mm switch height. You have to note that as a deviation. If you are doing a rewire, you have to alter the cabling anyway; so drop `em to the height necessary.

Most important point. KEEP THAT LETTER, and any correspondance between you that clarifies what they do or do not want. As long as you have advised appropriately (as it appears), then your bum isn`t hanging out in the wind, is it??

I`d also make a point of pushing for more than one socket per room; UNLESS the rooms are tiny????

KME

 

[maccarooni]

Thanks noz

Therefore whilst you advise that they have more sockets installed, they are well within their right to not have any, although you must take into account the likely loading (& overloading) of any one socket.

I appreciate that, which is why i have shown him the tables.

If hes does rent it out to a family surely common sense will show that 1 S/O per room is not enough.

 

[maccarooni]

Thanks KME

The smallest bedroom is 4x3m and the lounge diner is 6x3m

The socket near the shower most definetly does not, but this is the position where (as in his words - he does not agree this is neccessary.

 

[maccarooni]

KME

If i were to rewire the place I would have to comply with brb and therefore i would have no deviations.

 

[kme]

As for heights of switches and sockets, part M only applies to new builds, so whilst it may be advisable to relocate them you don't have to.

IMO, a rewire is a refurbishment of the electrical installation, and as such should meet necessary building regs. I understood part M to be new or refurb. ????

Socket within 3m of shower cubicle - does not comply with BS7671 and therefore doesn't comply with Part P which would therefore make the socket position illegal. Relocate it!

Somewhat different wording, but the gist is the same. Illegal is a term I wouldn`t have used, but I wouldn`t accept it staying there. IF you are rewiring; then YOU are basically installing a NEW socket in this position.

Anything happens - YOU have to justify it; and "the customer wanted it" won`t be accepted as a defence. You`re expected to be the one with the knowledge of what is right, not the customer.

n.b. They sound REALLY awkward. Good luck with that one.....

KME

 

[Apache]

Macca - I can read through the crossing out

 

[NozSpark]

Thanks KMEThe smallest bedroom is 4x3m and the lounge diner is 6x3m

The socket near the shower most definetly does not, but this is the position where (as in his words - he does not agree this is neccessary.

You'd think that this customer knew the regs...

Just tell him it's against regs and that you won't install it in that location.

 

[maccarooni]

Extractor fans... you don't have to fit them, although they might be advisable.

Noz

Iwas under the impression (maybe wrongly now) that i had to comply with building regs on a rewire and that ventilation/extraction was required in toilets / bathrooms and kitchens. ( or am i misinformed....

 

[maccarooni]

I'm also expecting him to tell me how much to charge him for it......LOL

 

[sellers]

Does Part M apply to a re-wire?

 

[maccarooni]

trust you patch.

Was it under an ultra voilet light then,

Or are you still eating lots of carrots...lol

 

[Lee321]

you can advise but you certainly won't fit what your not getting paid for! ?

as said the guides are guides but owt and owt non compliance and dangerous work you as an electrcian will not do no matter how much your paid

 

[maccarooni]

Sellars

TBH the only reason i mentioned heights was in the event of renting, disabled heights etc woud be beneficial, at the moment the switches are 1.5m,

 

[Apache]

trust you patch.Was it under an ultra voilet light then,

Or are you still eating lots of carrots...lol

It seems to be an issue with my laptop LCD screen!

I only had 1 DSO in our upstairs rooms and it's a PITA. I added a few others as surface mounted until we decorate next.

 

[Apache]

SellarsTBH the only reason i mentioned heights was in the event of renting, disabled heights etc woud be beneficial, at the moment the switches are 1.5m,

I thought disabled people wanted treating the same as everyone else........

:coat

 

[maccarooni]

So the next scenario is

I fit 1 socket per room

no extract in wc.

I certify and notify

Customer decides to sell to another Knowledgeable gent, who knows building regs like the back of his hand, and asks why i rewired this one with no extractor only one socket in each room and second hand pendants which are not even energy efficient!!!!!!!!

:red card