is this reportable and sould i???????????????

[zeff737]

hi peeps.

Could you help me with a moral dilemma?...... am I talking out of my bum, or is this really worth pursuing in today's electrically health and safety conscious world.................!!

the situation is this,

I'm a 40 year old mechanical maintenance fitter by trade (when I did my time there was no such thing as multi skilled, the unions sore to that).

As time has passed ive found it essential to learn the electrical side of the job so I signed up to do it a few years ago at evening classes at the local collage (which is a lie really, ive been to collage off my own back and at great expense and have been tort to pass the C&G 2330 level 2 & 3 but still dont know my ar$e from my elbow when it come to hands on!)

I was made redundant recently and thought that the 2330 would be a string to my bow as ive been fault finding and wiring on 230 to 24v machines for 5 years and could find and correct the faults safely 99% of the time, it just may have taken me 2 hours where as a proper spark could have done it in 10 mins.

Heres is the rub......please be impartial and professional with your responses...................

I found a job as a maintenance engineer at a local firm with no trouble as my C.V speaks for its self. as soon as I started I was introduced the the electrical CONTRACTOR that has been looking after thesite for 20 years. i introduced my self and said as ive just got my 2330 level 3 id be very grateful if he could show me the practical side of fault finding, testing etc.

I was given I very firm F*&K OFF...................................this is my job and your not qualified to do F&*K all......whats 2330?........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well as you may expect ive been on the back foot ever since but im not stupid and the 2330 has given me some knowledge even if its not hands on, the question is am i right with my ******* knowledge......................gents, its up to you to decide....

1. New installation of a blast heater wired in old three phase coloured wire that he had laying around.

2. Many I.P violations on control boxes where his reply was "well no body should be in this area so its ok (area not restricted in any way and is a common work area)

3. a job this week where a fuses spur has been wired in 1mm 4 core with the brown as line, the black as neutral the gray cut with no identifying tape added.

A 13 ampere plug top fitted to 2.5mm flat twin and earth, flung over an internal roof, over hanging florescent lamp fittings,(not secured in any manor) through an external wall (no fire protection added, its just a big hole) over a 15 metre catinery wire (hanging down 4 ft in the centre where lorries catch it) and is then running 15 6ft double florescent tube light fitting.....but to be fair only one works!

On top of this there are dead (!) cables strung all over the place that he says he knows what they are and its none of my business..........I dont know if there live or not as none of the control panels are marked up as to what they are and he has padlocked all the individual machine control panels, even though the isolators dont work and there are 'E' stops that have been missing for weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd like to say thats the full extent of things but there the faults that have come to mind in the 10 mins ive taken to do this email since I decided that enough was enough!

Should I report this guy and if so how do I do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steptoe]

headbang

where to start ???????

just :coat

sounds like a disaster and this guy is so far up his own ar5e he knows its rough as a badgers ar5e and doesnt like to be told so, hes probably making top dollar for 2bit jobs by the sounds of it...

EDIT : I dont think you can report him, what exactly is he pretending to be or do?

I think this would fall under the business owners responsibility under H&S or EAWR , and possible be a breach of insurance terms....

 

[zeff737]

he is a self employed contractor and a best mate of the production manager..........! I carnt let this go, I could come in to contact with a live cable in the course of my work and if I was made a bit dead you can bet your crown jewels that the fault would be fudged to make it look like it was my fault.................they have put far too much faith in this kn@b for too many years and now the place is lethal.......................could I report him and have a site inspection done........................it would show huge problems and really needs doing!!!!!!!!

 

[Andy™]

for part 1 (old colours), i may have done the same, but made sure it was marked to new colours.

as for the rest, he doesnt seem to know what he is doing, and mabe relying on the best mate part.

since its a workplace, he would also have to work to EAWR. and possibly others depending on what he's doing.

if something is dangeorus though, you could report it to HSE, who could issue probation notice or something

 

[Doc Hudson]

My understanding is that any complaints, issues, concerns, worries, disputes etc about any aspect of your work life would first have to be put thought the companies employee complaints procedure, possibly first verbal then in writing if not resolved. If a verbal meeting is being held I believe you are entitled to an independent witness to be part of the meeting. This may possibly be a secretary taking minutes who has no direct involvement with the dispute. But I may be wrong?

Doc H.

 

[zeff737]

Andy, this bloke is a cock and then some,...i know whats right and whats not , even without any electrical training, i can see a 2" hole in in the top of a 4" x 4" starter switch panal is lethal but how do i get this dick off site, there are hundreds of items that have not beem PAT tested for over a decade!!!!!!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:02 ----------

doc, thats why people get killed!!!!!!! its the old wistle blowing bollox!!!

this guy must belong to some sort of governing body right?

His work is leathal.....

so why the hell do i need to go through my firm (and get sacked) to show his sh!t work for what it is and maybe save a life or two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sidewinder]

Ahh, now zeff, be careful there because PAT is not a statutory requirement.

The statute law tools you have at your disposal are EAWR89, PUWER98, MHSWR99, HASAWA74.

Is it a unionised site?

You can under the whistleblowing legislation report it and be exempt from recourse from your employer, however, if you have been there such a short time, you would not be able to take up an unfair or constructive dismissal claim AFAIK.

As an aside I did a multi-skilled apprenticeship and I have a year or 4 on you!

Also, it was a heavily unionised industry too at the time!

Ironic when you consider the EETPU & the AEU eventually merged!

 

[Manator]

You asked who you should report him to, the answer is to your boss through the set procedures your firm has in place. It would also be best if you prepare a written report of your findings with the relevant regulation numbers that have not been adhered to.

Reporting the contractor to a governing body will do nothing but allow the contractor to put right what he has done, and only then if the person reporting him is the owner of the installation. The only other way to do it is to call your local H&S office and report any dangerous work place issues.

 

[Andy™]

this guy must belong to some sort of governing body right?

there is no legal requirement to be

 

[zeff737]

i have taken pictures of all this stuff, my boss will not give a sh!t unless some one gets killed.....whats the point of all the rules of do's and donts if its all worthless .....this is really peeing me off now, your saying he can get away with anything he want to do and no one is going to stop him but my boss, whos his best mate...........sode it, i'll find another job, who cares!!!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:28 ----------

[quote name='Andy

 

[Andy™]

so i can go self empolyed as a spark without paying any governing body or playing by there rules? how do i sign off my work then?

part p only applies to domestic. anyone can do commercial/industrial work. just get on with in and issue appropriate MWC or EIC

 

[zeff737]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Badger]

im sorry to say jeff but basically you hit the nail on the head

 

[Manator]

Unfortunately Andy is correct, I do however feel that your two years at college have not been wasted, otherwise you would not know the faults you have so far identified. I can see you feel very strongly about this, and rightly so, the law is very strict on the safety and well being of the workforce, so I would suggest a quick phone call to the HSE, who will not press for a name, be aware though that the owner/employer will be ultimately responsible, and may be subject to some heavy fines.

 

[Andy™]

I dont follow Andy, so any one with or without papers can work on companies sites with little or no come back and put peoples lives at risk like this dick but if its ahouse with one person in it they need to be registered..........please say ive got that wrong!! and if so why have ive been waisting two years at night collage.....

pretty much. all the law requires is that your competent. so your time at college hasnt been 'wasted' as such.

 

[Sidewinder]

zeff,

Report them to HSE mate at least that way you can sleep at night with a clear conscience!

As has been said though it may hit the company hard and could even shut them down, then, you would have that burden to shoulder and could tell no one!

Why not prepare a report, I'm sure we'll help here, apart from knowledge of 7671 many of us have other areas of competence.

You could type it up on the computer, illustrate it with photos and put reg numbers and examples of how it should be done.

Just explaining that you are very worried for the safety and livelihood of your your boss and your fellow employees, as well as your own?...

Remember who ever signs the company H&S policy stands to go to prison in the event of a fatality or serious injury.

Even though your boss has sub-contracted this to a "spark" he is still fully responsible for the work, even if he does not realise it!

 

[ProDave]

so i can go self empolyed as a spark without paying any governing body or playing by there rules? how do i sign off my work then?

Don't forget, Part P only applies to England and Wales.

So up here you can indeed just start up self employed, do the work and issue certificates. Providing of course you are competent to do so.

I would say being competent to do domestic work involves a lot more than just knowing the wiring regs, you need to understand a lot about how houses are built so you know where and how you can run cables, and more importantly where you cannot run cables.

 

[zeff737]

Unfortunately Andy is correct, I do however feel that your two years at college have not been wasted, otherwise you would not know the faults you have so far identified. I can see you feel very strongly about this, and rightly so, the law is very strict on the safety and well being of the workforce, so I would suggest a quick phone call to the HSE, who will not press for a name, be aware though that the owner/employer will be ultimately responsible, and may be subject to some heavy fines.

well, thats an eye opener.............i knew a big effing hole in a control panel or a missing e stop or wires wiving in the air were wrong before i spent 2 years and over a grand to get a piece of paper told me so.....i now kow what speed a motor runs at depending on its number of poles....................or i could have just looked at the plate on the thing, and how a cap is constructed, thats a vital bit of day to day info, but when it comes to getting some knob in a sling for all he crap he does for

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I dont follow Andy, so any one with or without papers can work on companies sites with little or no come back and put peoples lives at risk like this dick but if its ahouse with one person in it they need to be registered..........please say ive got that wrong!! and if so why have ive been waisting two years at night collage.....

If you look at any electrical regulation or rule book you will always see the wording 'competent person' mentioned, never 'qualified' This also applies in a court of law. This is because you could get someone who has been through every electrical course and got every C&G and other certificates but has never held a screwdriver

 

[zeff737]

If you look at any electrical regulation or rule book you will always see the wording 'competent person' mentioned, never 'qualified' This also applies in a court of law. This is because you could get someone who has been through every electrical course and got every C&G and other certificates but has never held a screwdriver

YEP thats me!!!!!!!!, just wish some one would have told me that a grand ago, and i would not have bothered going to night school when i could have been with my kids, even our lecturer told us the 2330 was worthless...........after the course.