twin and earth used outside

[Badger]

so what your all saying re twin and earth i needent have spent money on expensive armoured to supply the pond in 4mm armoured, i could have used 4mm t and e in the underground duct clipped up the bungalow wall, through the loft and into the c/u/rcbo/mcb devices. blimey i wish i hadent wasted all the money on the armoured now!!

 

[m4tty]

so what your all saying re twin and earth i needent have spent money on expensive armoured to supply the pond in 4mm armoured, i could have used 4mm t and e in the underground duct clipped up the bungalow wall, through the loft and into the c/u/rcbo/mcb devices. blimey i wish i hadent wasted all the money on the armoured now!!

Bet you wish you'd laid the blocks right way round on your pond too lmao :slap :coat

 

[Ash]

I`m not going to get TOO involved in this debate.....I will simply say that I don`t particularly like using FTE outside. That doesn`t mean it isn`t allowed, just that my personal preference is not to do it.Ash: could I nicely / politely / without causing offence suggest winding your neck in a little? The point about the wiki page being written, and with reference to, other countries was a valid one. SpecLoc has, over the years, demonstrated his knowledge and capability, to the majority of members. If you have a serious problem with him, and his posting attitude, the forum does provide a system to "ignore" certain members, and their posts.

I didn`t see you as being "flamed", it appeared to be more of a correction. The point about using BS reference material, rather than a "ten second" search of the internet, wasIMO a valid one. Perhaps some people get upset when an error is pointed out to them?

No problem, I'm gonna back down from this discussion and I've put him on my ignore list. This is a request though, Special, could you add me to your list, I think that would be best

 

[Badger]

Bet you wish you'd laid the blocks right way round on your pond too lmao :slap :coat

i did lay the blocks the correct way round actually !!

 

[batty]

I recently took some TW/E from an overhead that had been in 40 odd years perhaps i should try and contact the sparks that installed it to tell him not to do it again.

:^O

 

[Badger]

ok point taken batty i will use flex next time :^O

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

No problem, I'm gonna back down from this discussion and I've put him on my ignore list. This is a request though, Special, could you add me to your list, I think that would be best

Erm.....

You can ignore whoever you want Ash..

But for anyone to suggest others must igone thier comments?????????????????

Barmy or what?

If I consider any persons advice on the forum to be erroneous in any area..

Then I will post an opposing point of view....

If some people don't like thier opinions being questioned then they are up for a rude awakening once they get into the big wide world me thinks.?

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 00:47 ---------- Previous post was made at 00:33 ----------

flamed for the wiki link, i'll now explain. It was the first result in google. I could have looked further and found something more reliable, but why, it's common knowledge about the sun exposure. just unlike Special, I like to somewhat back up any argument I have even if it involves wiki, but then again I don't start arguments for the point of starting them.But special, if you like to use T+E outside

headbang :C

bad practice..

poor atitude IMHO..

Well you have me foxed well and truly there.....

Could have looked further...

But you didn't and so far you still havent .. (even though I already have!)?

Not backing up arguments??????????

eh?

You are 110% right there as well, for sure..

I have NEVER posted any references to any regs, page numbers or any other relataed sources to BS7671 or other wiring practice relating to this country ......

Have I?

Or did I????

I dunno.....

if I were a betting man.....

I guess my

 

[Voltimax]

Hmmmm ash, do you think possibly you're over reacting?

 

[martinxxxxxx]

510.2 Every item of equipment shall be selected and erected so as to allow compliance with the regulations stated in this chapter and the relevant regulations in other parts of BS 7671 and shall take account of manufacturers' instructions.

624Y Twin & Earth PVC Cable BS6004 A05VVH4-U

Standard: BS6004 Electric cables. PVC insulated, nonarmoured cables for voltages up to and including 450/750V, for electric power, lighting and internal wiring.

Clearly when looking at the data when they say "and internal wiring" it means should only be used internal which raises the question what should be done about it when found external?

Should this cable replaced FOC as it should not have been used here?

We need as practising electricians to get a really clear understanding of this very basic and fundamental issue to our work. I for one will be finding out from the manufacturers whether they are clearly saying it is not to be used externally. If they do then it would be a contravention of the reg above.

If we could get the facts here it would accomplish something important.

I have always thought that it was a big no no for outside, but a clear reason needs to be established to remove the need for further debate on this matter.

Martin

 

[Sidewinder]

Taking Prysmian cable as an example.

The sheath is constructed of pvc to BS 7655 type 6.

This is covered in BS 7655 Part 4.2.

This is general purpose pvc sheathing with a maximum operating temperature of 70 degrees Celsius (BS7655-4.2:2000, table 1)

This standard only refers to mechanical properties.

There is a raft of other standards in BS7655-0 which refer to the other test methods and requirements.

These would need to be checked to ascertain if the sheath material is suitable for being subjected to uv radiation.

The cable is however suitable for use (not perhaps installation) between -15 and +70 degrees Celsius.

 

[Andy™]

624Y Twin & Earth PVC Cable BS6004 A05VVH4-U

Standard: BS6004 Electric cables. PVC insulated, nonarmoured cables for voltages up to and including 450/750V, for electric power, lighting and internal wiring.

Clearly when looking at the data when they say "and internal wiring" it means should only be used internal which raises the question what should be done about it when found external?

Should this cable replaced FOC as it should not have been used here?

er... no. 'and internal wiring' means it can also be used for internal wiring, in addition to 'electric power, lighting'. it does not say it must only be used internal, or it cannot be used external.

so gonig by your own quote, it can be used external...

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Possibly correct, but not beyond reasonable doubt.

I think it should rely on more than an assumption.

You can get a marine version of T+E. I wonder why they bother making that when according to some the plain communal garden stuff will do the job just as well. :C

I would not be happy to be on a boat with a 240vac system wire in normal t+e, would you?

I am saying this to illustrate what the difference is between a cable that is very similar to T+E and is and to illuminate where the key problem lie with using it outside as I see it. I am not trying to win this argument or to belittle anyone.

I do think it is better that this is resolved. I will ring the tech desks of the cable cos and seek written assurances that it is safe to use outside, if they do not oblige then I will take that as a MI as referred to in my previous post.

We are all learning (apparently, especially as none of can state with evidence one way or the other whether our most used cable is weatherproof)

Martin

(Sent from my laptop, using "wifi")

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was made at 13:12 ----------

....These would need to be checked to ascertain if the sheath material is suitable for being subjected to uv radiation.

...

And continuous submersion

 

[Sidewinder]

The submersion bit I think I can clarify later with reference to the standards for the cable manufacture.

 

[Andy™]

I would not be happy to be on a boat with a 240vac system wire in normal t+e, would you?

T&E shouldnt be used on a boat simply because its not stranded. same as T&E shouldnt be used in a caravan.

 

[Sidewinder]

Quite Andy, T&E along with any solid cored cables or other "coarse" stranded such as SWA & 6491x must never be used in mobile applications or any applications where there is any relative or repetitive movement such as boats, caravans, motor homes, machinery etc.

 

[SteveT]

Generally manufacturers recommend that grey T+E should not be used where it will be exposed to sunlight as this degrades the PVC and drastically shortens its life. There is black PVC T+E available which is designed to be exposed as such. FP200 or HO7 good options

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Generally manufacturers recommend that grey T+E should not be used where it will be exposed to sunlight ......

Have you a document to back this up?

I would like to see it in black and white now that my attention has been drawn to consider this properly. I always agreed with your assertion, but that is no longer enough for me I want documents. I want to be sure one way or the other.

Martin

 

[jat01]

I have used artric flex in the past for led lights.

Have had no problems

 

[hfalkner]

I will be interested to hear views on this. I don't think T&E is very visible at a distance, and far less so than SWA or conduit. If it was my house it's what I'd go for.

Me three..

 

[davetheglitz]

I tend to use SY cable in preference. I like the earth sheath as a safety feature, it's easier to deal with than SWA and is not so visible.