pre loop in wiring

Where would be a good place to look for pre 'loop in' lighting circuit wiring diagrams?

They're all "Loop-in" as you say Guy, the feed loops at the switches or the fittings or a remote J/B .

These days I'm 3 plating at the switches more and more because of all the downlights TBH.

Not quite sure what you're looking for ,if its basic circuits you need to buy a book .

this leads on from Steptoes original problem of the week when he asked wether I was familiar with older lighting circuits, I am only familiar with 3 plating at the light. I assumed from the way Steps said 'older' circuits that wiring techniques have changed and I wanted to familiarise myself with what sparks were doing in the 80's and 90's as I am bound to come across these circuits. My books are too modern. Maybe I was wrong to assume that things have changed that much.

In older days JB's were used under floors to save cable some with 10 or more cables going in to them.

In older days JB's were used under floors to save cable some with 10 or more cables going in to them.

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that was known as the "spider system"

Every light and every switch was wired back to one big junction box where it was all connected together. Usually just one feed to the junction box for everything.

It was usual to have one such big junction box for each floor of a house. Which nicely explains why Landing lights so often have a borrowed neutral, as the get neutral from the upstairs JB but live comes from the downstairs JB via the two switches.

If you find an old house with a lighting fault, and find only 2 wires at the switch, and 2 wires at the light, then that's how it's wired.

Easy if it's an upstairs fault, it's usually easy to find the box in the loft (providing there's not too much junk) but when you need to find the big junction box for the downstairs, then it's guess which carpet to rip up looking for floorboards to lift.

These were mostly in the 60's. By the 80's and 90's 3 plating at the light was normal. Thought that's a regional thing. 3 plating at the switch is far more common up here, even on older houses, than it was darn sarf where I used to be.

Some sparks still use spider method. I would use it on rewires if existing conduits are being used and there are a lot of downlight/wall lights etc. I would use a WP box with wagos though.

I much prefer the spider method myself, if it is viable,

what I was getting at in my original post Guy was a Line taken of an adjacent sw and then simply a T&E between the 2way switches, then a sw L to the light. none of this 3c&E cable.

Some sparks still use spider method. I would use it on rewires if existing conduits are being used and there are a lot of downlight/wall lights etc. I would use a WP box with wagos though.

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WP box?

Wagos?

https://www.wagobox.com/index.php?source=adwords&gclid=CPL47cqv7K8CFaImtAodQ1Bv1w

These now pretty much overtake traditional JB's Guy

AndyGuinness

Waterproof box or adaptable box.

Ty. Are those wagos as good as they look?

Yes, just strip back the conductor insulation, (Wago supplies length guidelines) and slot them in, job done.

AndyGuinness

I only use them these days Black JB's are old hat. Wagos are much faster and maintenance free.

Ty. Are those wagos as good as they look?

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If you were putting three conductors into one connector you need to have all the conductors cut ready, then hold them in in the connector whilst you screw the terminal down with your other hand. With wagos you can terminate each individual conductor in turn, strip connect, then the next. Less risk of conductors floating loose out of the joint before you have the screw tight.

Doc H.

When I did lighting at college we where taught 3-plate, switch feed and the octopus joint box method same as what been described as the spider system.

Mounted a big RB4 joint box and run every cable to it.

I use adaptable boxes and DIN rail, it depends a lot on a lot of variables to be honest as to whether or not it is a viable method or not.

In my opinion [for what it's worth, see wife for details]...lever Wagos are better than push fit Wagos. Push fit Wagos are better than any other alternative. Wago push fit/flex conn are the dogs back wheels for light fittings.

Why is it called 3-plate?

................................... :coat

its not, some body just gave it that name, I never ever heard it called that until I came onto this forum [there are NO other forums] (apparently)

I picked it up here as well, guess its because you have a L, Loop and N.

Ok then, I get the '3' bit , but why 'PLATE'? I have mused over this methodology/nomenclature for over 40 years! Best I can come up with is a corruption of the word 'plait', but what do i know?... :coat