Submersible Pumps Are Flawed

[Swelper]

We  use  electric submersible pumps a lot  to pump water from  underground tanks  on building sites.  Our current  one is 240  volt and a while  back  it stopped working  and it was  hauled out  of the hole  and three  of us proceded  to examine it  and it  suddenly  without warning   gave off a   loud flashbang. This was in the pouring rain. ):

I told the site manager  it blew up and we needed  a new one  and too make sure  it  is 110v.

The site  manager  went off and bought  another one. 240v again.

But  when he seen  the old pump only had a cable frayed (where  it exploded)  he asked   me too fix it.

Well I've   refused  to fix  it or have anything to do with  this pump. I've been insisting  on a 110v model for  a few years now which are available. We had words today  and I told him to take it too the scrap yard where it belongs. Though I can't  see him listening. 

He never handles  the pump  btw. Just us mugs   out on site. I  will either  have  to leave this job  or go and buy the  right  pump myself  which I know I won't get paid for.

Anyway the reason  I say  submersible pumps  are flawed  is because  the  cable  will fray  and break. Just like your drill  or  angle grinder.

And because they  are sealed  it  means  breaking the seal too fix them.

A good  design would be an integral  water proof  plug socket  built in. So anytime  the cable frays,  the  pumps  internals  need  never be touched.

Does anyone  know a  submersible pump like this  in 110 volt  or would it be possible  to  retro fit   a water proof  plug  and socket  too the pump? 

Thanks for taking the time  reading this far  and I hope you can help.

 

[Apache]

It broke, and yet you didn't unplug the thing before pulling it out of the hole? :red card

It sounds like we need to take away your metal cutlery so you don't go poking it in the toaster.

Run the 240V one through a RCD. Simples.

 

[ProDave]

And ensure it is PA Tested, and refuse to use it if it's not. That will identify a damaged cable.

 

[batty]

Well said Pache if you have something faulty don't touch it until you have isolated the supply common sense really. Most stuff is easily available in 110 volt.

 

[ProDave]

But Using a 110V pump instead will NOT enable it to continue being used with a damaged cable.

 

[Swelper]

Well said Pache if you have something faulty don't touch it until you have isolated the supply common sense really. Most stuff is easily available in 110 volt.

We had thought  it was  jammed with dirt. Were not  tampering  with it.

Yes I agree it  was foolish  not switching  off the  supply. We just   were not expecting it to explode in our faces.

Who would   be responsible  if  I had been killed? Me I suppose for using it eh?

But Using a 110V pump instead will NOT enable it to continue being used with a damaged cable.

But whats the chances of being killed  by  110v?

Why would a site manager insist  on supplying  240v equipment  to his workers?

 

[ProDave]

Your employer is supposed to ensure it is safe, e.g by PA Testing it as I already mentioned.

But YOU could have a good look at it as well BEFORE you plug it in, and if the cable is worn or damaged, refuse to use it.

 

[Swelper]

Your employer is supposed to ensure it is safe, e.g by PA Testing it as I already mentioned.

But YOU could have a good look at it as well BEFORE you plug it in, and if the cable is worn or damaged, refuse to use it.

Does  PA testing  approve   a 240 volt  submersible  pump for use  on a building site?

What would happen if I examined  the pump  for  cable damage  and deemed it ok  and two hours  later  someone is electocuted  by the   same pump? This pump  has an all metal body btw  and not one of those  dinky  diy  plastic  jobbies.

It broke, and yet you didn't unplug the thing before pulling it out of the hole? :red card

It sounds like we need to take away your metal cutlery so you don't go poking it in the toaster.

Run the 240V one through a RCD. Simples.

And what happens  if the rcd  is faulty?  Ohh  yeah someone gets fried. 

 

[Sharpend]

Swelper you can only take the precautions that are reasonably available whether that is using Rcd protection or testing the pump prior to use each time, whilst we would all like a fail safe system it doesn't exist other than don't use it!

 

[M107]

All our sites have 230v submersible pumps in the underground cable ducts & run off pits all are fed via rcd fused spurs.

 

[Apache]

Does  PA testing  approve   a 240 volt  submersible  pump for use  on a building site?

What would happen if I examined  the pump  for  cable damage  and deemed it ok  and two hours  later  someone is electocuted  by the   same pump? This pump  has an all metal body btw  and not one of those  dinky  diy  plastic  jobbies.

And what happens  if the rcd  is faulty?  Ohh  yeah someone gets fried. 

Swelper - what kind of spark are you?

I have no proper electrical qualifications* but I can visually inspect a cable prior to use. I can test an RCD even if just using the test button.

This is Noddy stuff.

(* I 'qualified' online to PAT test)

I hear MacDonald's are recruiting.

 

[Swelper]

All our sites have 230v submersible pumps in the underground cable ducts & run off pits all are fed via rcd fused spurs.

Are they hauled  out off the hole  and manhandled  every day? Nope

Swelper - what kind of spark are you?

I have no proper electrical qualifications* but I can visually inspect a cable prior to use. I can test an RCD even if just using the test button.

This is Noddy stuff.

(* I 'qualified' online to PAT test)

I hear MacDonald's are recruiting.

I'm just a   formwork joiner who has to work in flooded holes. Maybe I'll  try a job in  mcdonalds. Probably safer.

So what you seem to be saying  is its ok  to use 240 volt  on a building site. Does  anyone else  agree  with this?

Swelper you can only take the precautions that are reasonably available whether that is using Rcd protection or testing the pump prior to use each time, whilst we would all like a fail safe system it doesn't exist other than don't use it!

I thought  110volts  was reasonably  fail safe?

 

[M107]

Are they hauled  out off the hole  and manhandled  every day? Nope

Now now no need to get a monk on with me matey boy, all I was pointing out was it is not unusual for sub pumps to be 230v but we use them via rcd's............but for what its worth no not every day but once a month they are for a spray off.

They are not pulled up by the cable either as this puts undue strain on the cable & normally ends with the problem you have encountered, each of out pumps has a blue nylon rope tied off to the top of them & the rope is also tied off to a D ring fixed to the inside edge of the manhole covers, they are then pulled up by the rope................safe as houses.

 

[Swelper]

I've seen  the pumps we use  being hauled out by the cable. Other site workers  you see. And the pump  is cast iron bodied and heavy.

The general consensus on this forum  seems to be that its  ok to use  240 volt on site.

Is this the  uk  or  some banana republic?

Does anyone know  off a  110v  submersible  pump  that has a sealed  plug connection for the cable?

Just found this....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Waterproof-Plug-Socket-Cable-Connector/dp/B0040YSN9C

what do you think?

 

[NozSpark]

Well then,, if they haul the pump out by the flex then you should really be attaching a line to the pump so that they use tat rather than the flex

 

[sellers]

The problem is arrising with you using the cable to put them in and out of the tanks!  Maybe some rope should be tied round the handle.

 

[NozSpark]

Oh,,,, and using a 110V pump will make no real difference

 

[Doc Hudson]

Irrespective of whether they are 230v or 110v by your own admission you (or persons on site) are using the equipment incorrectly. Pulling by use of the flex, removing from water whilst still energized. Clearly you have been happy using 230v on site, otherwise you would not have been using them? Have you put your concerns to your manager in writing? or to his/her boss in writing?

Doc H

 

[Swelper]

Nothing in writing yet. I'll probably quit first.

And no I'm not happy  using 240v on site. If someone is killed who's fault is it?

It comes back to the site manager at the end of the day. Some of the guys  handling the pumps  are foreigners  and are  unsure  about voltage.

Is it right  that they are supplied with  240 volt equipment?

 

[sellers]

are these used as a tool?  I was under the impression 110v reffered to power tools?  Your onsite kettle is 230v, as are your supplies supplying all the transformers.  Battery chargers?  230v?

Are they installed and then left untill maintenance?